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-   -   How to spend gold at the price cap (http://forum.sfgame.us/showthread.php?t=7238)

spiny norman 03-01-2014 10:53 AM

How to spend gold at the price cap
 
Back when I started, I read somewhere that gold should be spent on stat points in the ratio 10/9/5/1/1, where 10 is your primary (int, dex, str), 9 is con, 5 is luck, and 1 is your 2 secondary stats. As an example, as a mage I would try to keep costs at a ratio like this:

int 5000
con 4500
luck 2500
dex 500
str 500

I'm not sure who derived this formula and how, but it seems to work pretty well, and seemed to match what a bunch of the top players were using, so I stuck with it.

The system breaks down, however, at high levels, and in two ways.

The first is luck. All luck does is determine the probability of a critical hit, with the formula (luck * 5)/(enemy level * 2) with a maximum of 50%. This equation can be rearranged to show that the highest level opponent against which you will have a 50% chance of a critical hit is your luck/20. Or phrased another way, to figure out the luck you need for a 50% shot at a critical hit against any opponent, multiply its level by 20.

Motu at level 9 of the 13th floor is level 395. The highest ranked player on US server 1 is level 351. Tower floor 85 is level 368. Guild dungeon 49 is level 395. All this points to a max level of any non-player opponent of 400, with no players yet anywhere near that level. So there is no benefit to pushing your luck (pun intended) past 8000, or right now 7,020 in the arena. It's probably best to keep it even lower, since upgrading epics will cause your luck to continue to rise even if you spend no gold on it.

The second place that the formula breaks down is when you hit the price cap for stat points. The maximum cost of a stat point is 10,000,000. So once I hit the 10 million cost for a point to int, the formula breaks down: it says that I should put all my gold into int, which seems unlikely to yield optimal results.

Any idea how this 10/9/5/1/1 strategy was devised? Part of the problem here is that I really don't know what good dex and str do for a mage. Presumably, it mitigates the damage caused by scouts and warriors, but how? The formula for defense is str/2, but what is defense? The formula for evasion is dex/2, but mages can't evade, and even if they could, what does it mean to have an evasion of 1088?

Arturu 03-01-2014 03:02 PM

From what I know secondary stats lower appropriate stats of opponent.

Meaning that if you as a mage have 1000 dex, then you lower your opponents dex by 500, and so decrease his damage.

Although the stats work pretty well with armor and luck I would actually say that mage needs Con the least.
Con gives mages very little and the damage on weapons is far greater then other classes.

Considering that each next attack gets additional 40% damage (200% on round 6) damage is far more important for mage.

BMWGuinness 03-01-2014 10:41 PM

Already beat Motu, Jack the Hammerer is level 400

G.Hermann 03-02-2014 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arturu (Post 50605)
From what I know secondary stats lower appropriate stats of opponent.

Meaning that if you as a mage have 1000 dex, then you lower your opponents dex by 500, and so decrease his damage.

This is correct.
I don't really agree with the part about con and mages, though. To me, the main attribute and con are equally important to all classes.

Norman is right about the luck, any additional gold dumped into luck after you hit a 50% chance against level 400 is wasted.
8000 luck is very hard do reach though, even with nothing but +3 epics at level 350, even more so with the occasional main att-item,
so don't worry about hitting a theoretical maximum here too soon. ^^

As to the secondary attributes: Someone on the German board argued that any stat point that costs more than 5 M is wasted as well,
because the benefit from investing in the main attribute and con instead is simply greater and always will be, due to the cap at 10 M.
He did some calculations to try and prove his point, too, but I didn't bother with those because it seems logical to me, anyway.

bobo baggins 03-02-2014 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G.Hermann (Post 50607)
8000 luck is very hard do reach though, even with nothing but +3 epics at level 350, even more so with the occasional main att-item,
so don't worry about hitting a theoretical maximum here too soon. ^^


I don't know about hitting 8000 luck being hard to reach. I could hit 8000 luck I think easily on my one toon level 333 has about 6315 luck cost per point about 750k gold. atm still need to update like 4 epics which would be about 100-200+ points. This toon is a warrior so he has 9 epics instead or 8 ( I don't use epics for weapons).

spiny norman 03-02-2014 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arturu (Post 50605)
From what I know secondary stats lower appropriate stats of opponent.

Meaning that if you as a mage have 1000 dex, then you lower your opponents dex by 500, and so decrease his damage.

so for every 2 points I put into str, currently costing 1.6 million, I can lower my opponent's str by 1. To raise my int by 1 costs 10 million, so if I were fighting only warriors it would make sense to put my gold into Str until it reaches 5 million, at which point it makes more sense to put gold into Int exclusively.

The complicating factor is that only 1/3 of my battles, on average, should be against warriors. Which suggests I should discount the benefit of raising my str by 2/3, with a cap of 1.7 million or so.

Except right now I am fighting warriors both in the tower and in the dungeon.

Sigh.

Quote:

Although the stats work pretty well with armor and luck I would actually say that mage needs Con the least.
Con gives mages very little and the damage on weapons is far greater then other classes.

Considering that each next attack gets additional 40% damage (200% on round 6) damage is far more important for mage.
I don't think I agree with this logic. If your con is low, the chance is poor that you will reach round 6. Against the current dungeon boss I typically get killed after 2-4 hits. If I could make it to 5 hits, my cumulative damage would be 41% higher [(1 + 1.4 + 1.8 + 2.2 + 2.6)=9 vs (1 + 1.4 + 1.8 + 2.2)=6.4]. So really what needs to be calculated when deciding to put an additional stat point into int or con is the probability a minute additional amount of damage will turn the battle in my favor vs. the probability that a minute chance I will get in one additional hit will be decisive. And here I don't know how to make the calculation.

effing stats.

bobo baggins 03-02-2014 10:38 AM

I use the 4/2/2/1/1 way of doing my stats I will change it up say for example (using my warrior on s3) if I face a lot of mages in arena I will put more into int instead of dex. If I am facing an archer in dungeon that is giving me trouble I will swap it to dex instead of int. (side note not many archers in top 15 of HoF on s3). If facing warriors then I do my normal.

Any extra gold that I have that can be used for lower stats I tend to throw into luck if enough for it but not main or con it keeps my % up and uses left over gold.

spiny norman 03-02-2014 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G.Hermann (Post 50607)

Norman is right about the luck, any additional gold dumped into luck after you hit a 50% chance against level 400 is wasted.
8000 luck is very hard do reach though, even with nothing but +3 epics at level 350, even more so with the occasional main att-item,
so don't worry about hitting a theoretical maximum here too soon. ^^

My luck is currently 7554, and my epics are in total a couple hundred behind their current maximum value. If I continue to level, raise my aura, and purchase new epics I suspect I will hit 8000 in 6 months or so. The current high for luck on server 1 is 7791.

Arturu 03-09-2014 03:42 PM

I wanted to write here, and totally forgot about that.

Considering all the classes I would still argue that Con is more important to some then to others.

The thing is Con gives Warriors five times more then it gives mages.

Considering a lvl 300 character putting one point to Con

gives 1500 HP to Warriors

and gives only 300 HP to Mages


That's not all! Warrior has damage reduction of 50%, so with just one Con point he actually get 3000 HP.
Mage has only 10% reduction.

Although stats should be balanced when you hit cap things become more questionable.

Mages have about 2,5 more damage in their weapons compared to Warriors.

So putting one point into Int gives a lot more overall power then upping Con.


Of course you would have to take into account whether this Con would increase survivability in a Dungeon for let's say one more hit.
Because another hit guarantees another +40% to damage (+80% with crit)



Bottom line: Con is most important to Warriors - it's basically their offensive stat. What to do after cap you hit gold cap? That's hard to say.
Best mage on our server pushes on Int (1k more then Con), and he managed to outrank everyone in Dungeon and Tower.


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