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  #21  
Old 06-05-2011, 04:44 PM
Charista Charista is offline
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That section was alonger once. I tried covering more cases, but I realized I wasn't teaching anything new, just examining more cases, so I trimmed it down to what I felt was the minimum necessary to the point, and left it to the reader to apply the math to other cases.
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  #22  
Old 06-06-2011, 07:34 AM
elk elk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charista View Post
Sorry, elk, I could have recorded my average over my advancement, but I didn't. That data is lost to me.

It doesn't take a lot of effort to calculate your average. Just record your XP before and after a day's questing, and divide the difference by the amount of thirst you used, then multiply by your segment length. If a guild war was won during your questing, subtract that XP, but if you didn't catch it, just include it. It won't cause much error if it is included.
Ok I will reiterate that elk = bad at math so if these are silly/dumb questions, by all means feel free to mock away (I’m fine w/ it )

The first question that comes to mind is about recording the XP earned that day. That would be relative to the quests I chose; which we’ll assume aren’t optimal at this point. So should I choose quests based on some consistent method to get a decent measure of XP/day (say XP/time or shortest segment length available)? I’m assuming my selection method should have some repeatability so that there isn’t some large +/- value (or a more true average). And considering the +/- do I need to sample several days worth to see a trend (and if so, recommendations on how many days) or is one sample enough? I’m lvl 112 currently and if I recall correctly, my taking samples should be a bit more frequent since I fall in that ‘logarithmic region’. Which had me thinking that If I need to take several days worth of samples to determine a trend, my character level may change therefore skewing that average (although I’m assuming the answer to that question is the change in XP/day is minimal between 1 level so it shouldn’t be a concern until a few levels higher where I should sample again.)

The other question I had is with the ‘multiple by your segment length’ statement. I’m a freebie so my thirst will always be 100. But the wording of the segment length confused me. Am I to record the number of segments I used that day for my multiplier or is it meaning something else (and if so, would you clarify)?

Thanks!

elk
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  #23  
Old 06-06-2011, 09:08 AM
Charista Charista is offline
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Using the normal "max exp/minute" method is fine for the initial average. Just take whichever quest gives you the most XP/minute. Once you know that, switching to my method will result in a slow rise of ave_XP/seg, so record it daily for a few days. It won't increase a lot, just a little each day. Like I said in the text, 9 times out of 10, my method and the max xp/minute method give the same answer, so at most, you'll see a 10% increase in ave_xp/seg.

100 thirst, and I'm assuming a 30 mount? You have 100/3.5 = 31 segments per day (last will be a short 2 minute). So, just do:

Code:
ave_XP/seg = (end_of_day_XP - beginning_of_day_XP)/31
[Edit: Note that mockery gains no one friends. I have a mind for statistics, and that's not normal. I've seen guys that mastered three dimensional calculus reduced to tears when they failed Stats.]

Last edited by Charista; 06-06-2011 at 09:10 AM.
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  #24  
Old 06-06-2011, 02:13 PM
adipiciu adipiciu is offline
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Nice guide I also had to deal with gold diggers.

Last edited by adipiciu; 06-06-2011 at 02:22 PM.
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  #25  
Old 06-06-2011, 02:26 PM
Charista Charista is offline
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Sorry, but no, I wouldn't take Q1.

Q1: 1seg + 3 avg = 12K+3x10K = 42K
Q2: 4seg = 46K

I would take Q4.

Though in this case the sacrifice for a better chance at equipment, stickers and shroom drops is so small (4K over 4 segments at 46K is less than 10%), I could see people justifying the shorter quest. It's still too large for me, personally, but others would. If it was 1K, I would probably take the short one.
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  #26  
Old 06-06-2011, 04:51 PM
adipiciu adipiciu is offline
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I saw later that you explained this in another way. Many people would calculate like this
Q1: 1seg - 12k Xp (x3 would be 4seg - 48k Xp)
Q2: 4seg - 46k Xp
They multiply the segments, or calculate the xp/seg and they get Q1 better then Q2.

Anyway, 8% more xp just by one quest, even if it has 4 segments, is big enough to justify the selection of Q2.

Last edited by adipiciu; 06-06-2011 at 04:52 PM.
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  #27  
Old 06-07-2011, 12:04 AM
Charista Charista is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adipiciu View Post
I saw later that you explained this in another way. Many people would calculate like this
Q1: 1seg - 12k Xp (x3 would be 4seg - 48k Xp)
Q2: 4seg - 46k Xp
They multiply the segments, or calculate the xp/seg and they get Q1 better then Q2.

Anyway, 8% more xp just by one quest, even if it has 4 segments, is big enough to justify the selection of Q2.
Please don't remove previous disproved statements, because it removes the context of my replies and forces me to full quote you to ensure that context remains.

I have never had anyone describe the method you mention above to me. It doesn't really make any sense since you can't rely on the three unknowns being 12K, especially if the average were 7K instead of 10K, making 12K very high and expectations of that value repeating low.
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  #28  
Old 06-08-2011, 08:18 AM
Bullbound Bullbound is offline
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I don't know how, but maybe someone could make a GreaseMonkey script or similar program that would track the gold and experience from quests offered to display your current average? That way, people could just compare every time when they wish to choose.
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  #29  
Old 06-09-2011, 04:50 PM
psultimate psultimate is offline
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Charista - awesome post! I have been doing some of these things, but this really firmed up some of my suspicions about XP. I had a question for you : As a non shroomer, suppose I have just passed a threshold. I've saved up 25 shrooms for a dragon and I normally play all 15 days so it makes sense to get dragons versus paying for thirst. Is it better for me to use the dragon immediately or save the dragon until my xp/seg catches up to what it was before I hit the threshold?
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  #30  
Old 06-09-2011, 07:47 PM
Charista Charista is offline
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When you buy a 50 mount doesn't affect the Days model. At the end, you'll have gained 40% more XP than the 30 mount, regardless of when you buy it. If that crosses a threshold, it doesn't change that fact.

On the level model, you gain by buying it before the threshold. You gain more levels/day the lower level you buy it at, so for power, ASAP.

That leaves the Well model. We'll spin this model a little differently. To get from level X to level Y, we need Z experience. During that time, we will have
Code:
C(X)=(XP/level) /(avg_XP/seg) at level X
We can determine how many segments we need to get from X to Y by:

Code:
C = C(X) + C(X+1) + ... + C(Y-1)
Ignoring other effects, C would be a known value, which would not change unless we changed our style of selecting quests, or killed a dungeon, gained Instructor bonus, etc. Those effects are irrelevant for this question, so we'll treat C as a constant.

So, what does buying a different mount do? It changes the amount of time we spend on one segment. So, what effect does that have on C?

None. C is the same, no matter how long our segments are. Buying a mount gives us more segments based on thirst, but it doesn't matter if you buy those segments earlier or later, once we reach Level Y.

Breaking the XP into segments to get from X to Y demonstrates that regardless of time, it takes exactly the same number of quests to get from X to Y, regardless of thirst or mount. It may be different by time, since I have more segments per day than someone with 100 thirst, but no matter how long it takes to get to Level 264, you'll have very close to the same number of segments as me. (There's a slight difference. 100 thirst players get a higher %age of their quest XP from more Guild Wars. A 100 thirst player gets 2 guild wars/100 thirst, while I get 2 guild wars/300 thirst.)

Thus, using a better mount before or after the threshold does not accelerate our XP gain over the long term.

So, the only model that shows us any change from using the mount is the level model, which tells us "More Power Sooner is Better!". The answer is, then, "Buy the mount earlier so that you're higher level and more powerful sooner."

Last edited by Charista; 06-09-2011 at 07:50 PM.
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