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  #101  
Old 09-14-2014, 08:14 PM
MedusasSnakes MedusasSnakes is offline
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Originally Posted by Huscarl View Post
By the way, what do you mean by "normal" exp? At lv320 are you getting more exp/quest than you did at 299? or than you did at 274?
Absolutely NOT. Once you hit level 275, you get a gigantic kick in the teeth for experience. I'm currently level 328, and I can tell you, when I get a quest for over a mill exp, I consider it good, and I generally ONLY get those for 10 minute quests.

To get to level 329, I need 596,866,840 experience.

Experience weekends are my best friend, and even then, it's still painful. I can understand why people stop playing at level 275. Especially if they are not shroomers.

I have one dungeon left to defeat. That dungeon, the experience I get once I do beat it, will not allow me to level up.

I don't know what would be better - holding off, or just going ahead and doing the dungeons - but I do know, I personally don't have the patience to wait.

In the meantime, are you helping out your guild? That 30 or 40 upgrade points you may get from the epic you get from the dungeon; would that help your guild beat another dungeon mob? I know a few of my guild members held off, but they would do those dungeons before we would attempt a raid, level up a little bit, and get new epics. I don't know one way or another if it helped; I just know that 2 or 3 people did that.

Will those upgrade points help you defeat towers? You get more gold, so therefore you can buy more upgrades. Will it help you defeat guild portals, or personal portals?

There are so many aspects to take into account. It's hard to say one way or another.
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  #102  
Old 09-14-2014, 10:19 PM
Huscarl Huscarl is offline
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Originally Posted by godevil View Post
exp rewards from dungeons are the same to all level, just the items are corresponding to your level.
I am quite aware. But exp from quests isn't. Right now I'm at level 197, getting an avg of ~260k exp per segment, with 96% scrapbook and 132% guild exp. When I hit level 300, my exp per segment will be less then, than it is now. Therefore, as long as I'm getting more than 250k exp per segment, my dungeon will be more valuable then than at any time before then.

The one problem I have is that I don't know how slowly the exp rate rises at 301, 302, etc. My data is limited. If it goes from 200k/seg at 300 to 250k, it could be worth using dungeons at 275 too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MedusasSnakes View Post
Absolutely NOT. Once you hit level 275, you get a gigantic kick in the teeth for experience. I'm currently level 328, and I can tell you, when I get a quest for over a mill exp, I consider it good, and I generally ONLY get those for 10 minute quests.

To get to level 329, I need 596,866,840 experience.

Experience weekends are my best friend, and even then, it's still painful. I can understand why people stop playing at level 275. Especially if they are not shroomers.

I have one dungeon left to defeat. That dungeon, the experience I get once I do beat it, will not allow me to level up.

I don't know what would be better - holding off, or just going ahead and doing the dungeons - but I do know, I personally don't have the patience to wait.

In the meantime, are you helping out your guild? That 30 or 40 upgrade points you may get from the epic you get from the dungeon; would that help your guild beat another dungeon mob? I know a few of my guild members held off, but they would do those dungeons before we would attempt a raid, level up a little bit, and get new epics. I don't know one way or another if it helped; I just know that 2 or 3 people did that.

Will those upgrade points help you defeat towers? You get more gold, so therefore you can buy more upgrades. Will it help you defeat guild portals, or personal portals?

There are so many aspects to take into account. It's hard to say one way or another.
If I were in your shoes, I'd just do the last dungeon. Seeing as the recent patch eased up on players at lvl350+, it's not likely that lvl350 exp will be worse than what you currently get.

You make a good point about epics, but unless I'm fighting dungeon 110 or 120, there's no guarantee I'd get an epic anyway. Not to mention, all my drops will be much better @300.

Last edited by Huscarl; 09-14-2014 at 10:33 PM.
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  #103  
Old 09-14-2014, 10:34 PM
MedusasSnakes MedusasSnakes is offline
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Oh, I just can't beat the dungeon yet. Otherwise it would be done

Additionally, once you reach the final dungeon, the 13th floor, every one you beat, you get an epic. The problem that I have found with that is the epics are useless to me. Each time they have been for all attributes. The numbers are lower than what I have on, so I have put them on my tower people, if they were good enough. Otherwise, I sold them.

Last edited by MedusasSnakes; 09-14-2014 at 10:39 PM.
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  #104  
Old 09-15-2014, 05:20 AM
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bobo baggins bobo baggins is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huscarl View Post
if there were a way to jump from 300 to 320, I'd do it. There isn't, though. I'm looking more at a jump of maybe 300 to 305. That would involve going from d110 to d125 in rapid succession.

My reasoning here is, if I'm getting worse exp at lv300 than I am at lv225, then completing those dungeons at lv300 is better. My problem is I don't really know how much exp I'll get at 225 because I've never been there. But if lv300 exp is about equal to lv195 exp, which seems to be the case, then I assume the dungeons will end up saving me more questing at lv300.

By the way, what do you mean by "normal" exp? At lv320 are you getting more exp/quest than you did at 299? or than you did at 274?
What I mean is that the drop in exp goes from say 300k-500k per segement to about 1/2. As I said it has been awhile since I played a toon below level 320 but from what I recall getting a 1 mill exp quest is very rare till you get near 320 and even then a lot less likely to happen then it did before hitting level 300.


As for dungeons exp is set in stone and items are given out for which ever has the lower level. So say you beat a dungeon that the monster's level is 350 and you are level 300 the item drop will be a level 300 item. If you beat a level 200 monster and you are 300 you get a level 200 item. But you also have to remember that item drops are a 10% chance to happen with level 10 dungeons and dungeon 13 having a 100% chance.
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Last edited by bobo baggins; 09-15-2014 at 05:24 AM.
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  #105  
Old 09-30-2014, 03:57 PM
Huscarl Huscarl is offline
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First off, I want to give Charista a very late thank you for taking the time to explain the ways to optimize leveling. I largely agree with what he wrote in his original post, and got a great deal of valuable information in it.

When I originally read his comprehensive post about optimizing, I was only about level 70 or 80, and found the head's up on thresholds quite helpful. Prior to reading the thread, I was always choosing the quest with the highest average exp/segment, instead of selecting the most optimal quest to maximize exp/day. So he helped me out in a big way there, too.

His advice seemed to serve me well, and at the level 150 and level 175 thresholds I blew through dungeons as quickly as possible (even used a few shrooms to retry dungeons). Consequently, I made it through the first two major thresholds, and hardly even noticed them.

However, when I was around level 190 I reread the original post and then began reading the followup replies in the thread, in part to understand what had happened to Charista, considering his obsession with the game. The answer turned out to be simple: The thresholds at level 275 and level 300 turned out to be more painful than he had anticipated. And it is because of these two thresholds, particularly the level 300 threshold, that I am taking the time to make this post.

The plot thickens...



The other problem:



A tough, but worthwhile decision:



Explanations.



Optimizing:



Finally, just some interesting information:




Update:

After talking to a guildmate in the low 300s (L313), I realized that I was wrong about the way exp increases work after L300. The linear region ends at L300. Maybe it continues at some later date, but my guildmate told me that her quest exp hasn't increased at all from L300 to L313. Maybe what Bobo Baggins was saying is that quest exp starts increasing again at L320. I don't know. I guess I'll find out eventually.

Last edited by Huscarl; 01-02-2015 at 05:02 PM. Reason: refined some numbers due to additional data obtained
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  #106  
Old 10-01-2014, 09:36 AM
Quilp Quilp is offline
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For the record:
The xp drop off at level 300 lasts so long that holding off doing dungeons makes no sense after you hit 300.

I still don't quite see the kind of xp per day that I saw at level 299. I'm at level 364; so that should give you some idea of how long this lasts. (Note: This is so even though all guild and personal dungeons are now complete and scrapbook is full.)

It now takes one trillion plus points to make a level. I estimate it will take another 40+ trillion to get to level 400. Without any dungeons left it will take a couple of years to reach that goal.
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  #107  
Old 10-01-2014, 09:46 AM
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bobo baggins bobo baggins is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quilp View Post
For the record:
The xp drop off at level 300 lasts so long that holding off doing dungeons makes no sense after you hit 300.

I still don't quite see the kind of xp per day that I saw at level 299. I'm at level 364; so that should give you some idea of how long this lasts. (Note: This is so even though all guild and personal dungeons are now complete and scrapbook is full.)

It now takes one trillion plus points to make a level. I estimate it will take another 40+ trillion to get to level 400. Without any dungeons left it will take a couple of years to reach that goal.
An FYI last update for most part made getting from lvl 350 to lvl 400 abt the samefor each lvl at least in the amount of time it takes to gain a lvl . Which saves about a week per level starting from level 350.
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  #108  
Old 10-01-2014, 12:27 PM
Huscarl Huscarl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quilp View Post
For the record:
The xp drop off at level 300 lasts so long that holding off doing dungeons makes no sense after you hit 300.
That's not true. As I wrote in my post, your xp/seg rises at a slower rate, but that corresponds with xp/lvl rising at a slower rate.

To be clear:

At level 300, your xp/seg is around 200k.
Over the course of 14 levels, it rises from 200k to 250k (a 25% increase).

At level 189, your xp/seg is around 200k. Over the course of 10 levels, it rises from 200k to 250k.

The thing is, at level 199, you are continuing to level just as quickly as you did at level 189.

At level 314, you are also continuing to level just as quickly as you did at level 300.

So in reality, it's the same thing, just with an xp bar that takes 8 or 9 times longer to fill.

But the principle remains: it's not optimal to burn dungeons while you are between levels 314 and 324 because your dungeons are now more valuable after crossing the level 325 threshold.

Another way to think about it:

At level 320, average xp/seg is around 275k. That means dungeon 129 is worth 308630400/275000 = 1122 segments of xp.
At level 325, average xp/seg is around 250k. That means dungeon 129 is worth 308630400/250000 = 1234 segments of xp.

So if player A and player B hit level 320 at the same time, and player A finally beats D129, while player B decides to wait, then when player B completes D129 at level 325, he'll now be a day ahead in xp.

Last edited by Huscarl; 01-02-2015 at 05:51 PM.
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  #109  
Old 10-01-2014, 01:17 PM
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bobo baggins bobo baggins is offline
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Originally Posted by Huscarl View Post
So if player A and player B hit level 320 at the same time, and player A finally beats D129, while player B decides to wait, then when player B completes D129 at level 325, he'll now be a day ahead in xp.
actually the exp would be the same for both players just that they would get it at different times. So what would happen is player A would be ahead till player B beat his then they would be even again. have to remember That exp for dungeon don't change the higher level you are so if you are going to compare 2 players it isn't so much when you beat the dungeon but if you do.

Another thing to consider is that with dungeon 13 beating them is more about luck then it is about your character build I have beaten dungeons before other with higher level and better stats and it wasn't because they were holding back.

I agree with Quilp in that once you hit level 300 no use holding back on dungeons. one thing I would like to add though is that I think once you hit dungeon 13 that they should be done as you can as they can takes up to 6+ months especially for warriors which have the hardest time beating dungeons as it is.
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  #110  
Old 10-01-2014, 01:32 PM
Huscarl Huscarl is offline
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Originally Posted by bobo baggins View Post
actually the exp would be the same for both players just that they would get it at different times. So what would happen is player A would be ahead till player B beat his then they would be even again.
If you think that, then I guess you never understood what Charista was saying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charista View Post
The Linear region excludes fast changing level/day, but in this region, we have a different effect, called the Thresholds. These Threshold greatly change our ave_xp/seg and levels/day, and by that you can tell the Days model is going to be vital to our analysis.

Under the Day model, L249 takes 4 days to complete, but L250 takes 6-7 days. that is a huge difference. So how does that affect our dungeon reward, which is constant and unaffected by the Threshold effect?

Well, let's arbitrarily choose a value for a dungeon, such as D12-3, and state that it provides 50% of a level from the Level model. Okay, that wasn't arbitrary. That's how much I really got when i burned it at L250. Since xp/level at L249 is not significantly different from L250, it would provide 50% of L249, too.

Under the Day model, 50% of L249 represents 2 days of questing, but at L250, it represents 3 days! We literally gain a full day on our competition if we do not burn the dungeon until after we pass the Threshold. That's not insignificant.We are quite literally gaining a day on our competition, if they burned the dungeon before the Threshold.
Quote:
The Days model likes burning them at lower level, because rising xp/level still reduces the number of days that reward equates to. The Level model still likes burning dungeons right after the Threshold, for exactly the same reason as the Logarithmic Region.
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