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  #21  
Old 06-11-2012, 10:16 PM
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bobo baggins bobo baggins is offline
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yes GeorgeKen that is correct I wasn't 100% sure on that as I couldn't find it anywhere in the forum but I do recall seeing that you can't another guild that is over 3000 honor below you. I am guessing it stems from compliants that guilds were attacking way below the ranks just to bully the lower ranked guilds.

Yes it does happen I had it happen to my guild on s1 US not long after I took over the guild we had an officer from the guild try recruiting a couple of us we told him no so he attacked us. then mailed us and said since you didnt join us we will attackyou till you do we told him thats fine we lose and you wasted x amount of gold doing it sincve you gain nothing no honor or exp he kept saying yes and bugging us till the war was over and seen we were right. But we explained this to his guild leader and he said player x was a hot head and after the war he was demoted.

ok I kinda got off track but it was to explain why I beleive they capped it at 3000 honor so hotheads like player x don't do things like that and try and ruin it for newer players trying to move up.

Yes it don't help you out but it does protect those who can't protect themselves.

disclaimer: the reason for 3000 honor cap is my opinion only I don't know for sure iof tyhat is the reason for it or not.
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  #22  
Old 06-12-2012, 02:31 AM
GeorgeKen GeorgeKen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spiny norman View Post
Here we seem to have a similar problem: a dominant guild that no one can beat and no one can catch. The obvious solution would be to split the guild into two more competitive guilds. Or for top players to jump to other guilds, either temporarily or permanently. But let's face it: if the top guild is this far out of reach, you have to either do something to slow them down or speed everyone else up to have some hope of restoring some competition. That you don't just keep accelerating away like in soccerstar is a good thing.

what you say is nice, but you forget something: those 50 people who have spent money and time to be so "far out of reach". Why should they slow us down for showing dedication to the game?

What they need to do is give equal chances to everyone instead of slowing some people down or speeding up some others. Otherwise it is unfair.

As i said before, all they have to do is give the guilds the ability to attack the guild directly below them in the highscore list and gain exp, no matter what their honor difference is (so that the problem i mention is avoided).

Last edited by GeorgeKen; 06-12-2012 at 02:34 AM.
  #23  
Old 06-12-2012, 02:51 AM
goku goku is offline
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Quote:
The obvious solution would be to split the guild into two more competitive guilds.
I'm sorry, but that is all but obvious solution.
Why would I want to split the guild that I've spent years creating, managing etc?
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  #24  
Old 06-12-2012, 06:09 AM
GeorgeKen GeorgeKen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobo baggins View Post
yes GeorgeKen that is correct I wasn't 100% sure on that as I couldn't find it anywhere in the forum but I do recall seeing that you can't another guild that is over 3000 honor below you. I am guessing it stems from compliants that guilds were attacking way below the ranks just to bully the lower ranked guilds.

Yes it does happen I had it happen to my guild on s1 US not long after I took over the guild we had an officer from the guild try recruiting a couple of us we told him no so he attacked us. then mailed us and said since you didnt join us we will attackyou till you do we told him thats fine we lose and you wasted x amount of gold doing it sincve you gain nothing no honor or exp he kept saying yes and bugging us till the war was over and seen we were right. But we explained this to his guild leader and he said player x was a hot head and after the war he was demoted.

ok I kinda got off track but it was to explain why I beleive they capped it at 3000 honor so hotheads like player x don't do things like that and try and ruin it for newer players trying to move up.

Yes it don't help you out but it does protect those who can't protect themselves.

disclaimer: the reason for 3000 honor cap is my opinion only I don't know for sure iof tyhat is the reason for it or not.
a simple solution would be:

"As i said before, all they have to do is give the guilds the ability to attack the guild directly below them in the highscore list and gain exp, no matter what their honor difference is (so that the problem i mention is avoided)."

that way they avoid the bullying part (although i dont understand what bullying means in a fighting game, i believe that attacks are the purpose of a game like this, which would include a stronger guild to "bully" a lower guild, but i can understand that this is frustrating for the lower guild and i accept that fact), and they also solve our problem.

We need to be able to attack SOMEONE in this game, or else people will get really bored and possibly stop playing (making UK server completely dead).

And no i do not accept the reasoning mentioned above by other people, i dont want to split my guild to two guilds just to be able to attack someone, i dont want to attack my in-game friends and i definatelly do not want to try and manage 50 people to not attack another guild in purpose just to be able to attack them in general, forcing me to kick people out and re-invite them all the time someone joins by mistake. All we ask is give us a chance too, we need to be able to attack someone, even if that means we can attack only the guild which is directly below us...

Or i dunno, reduce each week a % of the honor of the first guild or something, i just dunno... There are many solutions for this without making it unfair for either the strongest or the weakest, but something has to be done, each day passing by my guild is losing at least 100 million exp (in total) by not being able to attack anyone....
  #25  
Old 06-12-2012, 09:22 AM
spiny norman spiny norman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goku View Post
I'm sorry, but that is all but obvious solution.
Why would I want to split the guild that I've spent years creating, managing etc?
because the lack of competition makes the game less entertaining for you. You have a choice. You can have a behemoth and sit at the top twiddling your thumbs waiting in vain for someone to catch up, or you can take action to make the game more competive. As it is, you say it may take weeks for a guild to climb high enough that you can swat them down again. Yet you want Playa to change the game mechanics so that it becomes even more difficult for them to keep up. At the same time, this would discourage the players below you, increasing attrition and hastening the complete collapse of the game. Is that what you want?

You may have spent years building your guild. I'm guessing not all 50 members have been there from day 1. They jumped on the bandwagon later, to collect the extra gold, honor, and exp. If sitting on the top of olympus has gotten boring for them, perhaps a chunk of them could defect to #2 and try to knock you off your perch. Palace intrigue! It's a game, not your 401K. The time you've invested you'll never get back. Long term, it is not going to be entertaining if there is no competition.

There may be another problem screwing up game mechanics as well. On soccerstar it is a dirty secret that there are many inactive accounts that are being kept alive by other players. They don't necessarily train, but they are so far ahead of everyone else that it would take months of max training for anyone to catch them. This prevents the natural attrition from taking place, allowing lower players to move up. I'd be shocked if there weren't quite a few of these zombie accounts on S&F as well.

Quote:
We need to be able to attack SOMEONE in this game, or else people will get really bored and possibly stop playing (making UK server completely dead).
I disagree with your conclusion. If players in your guild quit, it would increase overall interest in the game as other guilds scramble to take your spot. Your guild has a max 50 players, with hundreds or thousands below you. What causes them to quit is often the feeling that as hard as they train they will never be able to challenge you.

Last edited by bobo baggins; 06-12-2012 at 09:48 AM. Reason: double posting
  #26  
Old 06-12-2012, 12:50 PM
polopoloyuuu polopoloyuuu is offline
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The issue here is that guild's need more feats of strength with a guild battle being just one facet of the competition.

For example, s&f could incorporate mini games that the guild's are allowed to participate in that don't just test absolute level. Here are some examples:

1) "The Equalizing Chamber":
-Each player level is removed and all stats are replaced by a normalized stat.
-These stats are normalized to a given level, say 300, (along with item buffs) so that the battle just tests the character builds of the guild across all levels. This would be easy to code actually since it's all the same but with changed absolute statistics.

2) "Alter Egos"
-Each player in each guild gets 10 hours to join "Alter Ego" matches to distribute 100 skill points into their "Alter Ego" avatar.
-Then they search through pages and pages of randomly generated items. They can only choose one of each item one time, so they have to search and make a good judgement call on when to grab a given item for the last time. (i.e. the longer time you have to scroll through the 'avatar' shop, the higher the chance you will choose a better item)
-After avatars are finished, the guild leader then starts to reorder how he wants the order of his (N) players to fight in. He makes this decision based on the stat set distribution etc.
-Two guilds have an 'alter ego' battle and the winner gains honor/experience/etc.

I have many more ideas, but Playa will have to pay me.

Last edited by polopoloyuuu; 06-12-2012 at 12:52 PM.
  #27  
Old 06-12-2012, 04:22 PM
GeorgeKen GeorgeKen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spiny norman View Post
I disagree with your conclusion. If players in your guild quit, it would increase overall interest in the game as other guilds scramble to take your spot. Your guild has a max 50 players, with hundreds or thousands below you. What causes them to quit is often the feeling that as hard as they train they will never be able to challenge you.
Please dont jump to conclusions if you are not fully aware of the situation of the server.... the last remaining active shroomers in the server are in our guild, even the second guild is our academy and even they are 50% inactive, any guild below rank 3 is literally dead. (thats why we gathered all the active people in the first place and thats also why noone is willing to move to a lower guild to have competition, because they are dead guilds). There is hardly any competition when me and 2 more people from my guild can easily win against the 3rd guild of the server (mainly because even they have a lot of inactives who rarely join defence). There are some guilds with some active people, but they are very casual players, resulting in me being able to clear the whole guild alone (which means no competitive guilds. thats what i mean, there are not any competitive active guilds, just some guilds with people who are in levels of 130-160 or something, i dont count them as they might be active, but cannot really help the status of the server).

(i am playing 2 years since the server started in UK and anyone can confirm my sayings of the status of the server).

Nonetheless the status of the server is not my problem to consider, the point here is that they disable us from enjoying one huge part of the game, which is guild battles. And thats why this whole post has been created, to ask for this pethetic guild battle system based on honor and not rankings to be changed before the last remaining guilds of the server die (which will also happen to your servers as well in the near future if something is not changed).

We (in the UK) are the "future" of what happens to a server with this battle system..... It will happen to your servers as well in the near future.

Last edited by GeorgeKen; 06-12-2012 at 04:43 PM.
  #28  
Old 06-12-2012, 08:18 PM
Bullbound Bullbound is offline
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GeorgeKen, a large part of the complaint I'm seeing from you is that the game is not popular enough with the UK market. Doing a quick check, there are 2 servers in the UK, whereas we have 8 here. There is still some competition on all of the servers here, which is a great thing. Yes, it could become boring and quiet here, but not any time soon from what I'm seeing. I would say that the lack of active guild battles is not from a fault with the ranking system, but with a lack of interested audience.
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  #29  
Old 06-13-2012, 02:25 AM
goku goku is offline
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Spinny,
First of all, our guild on S1.us is not in similar situation as Uk server. We do have formidable competition here, with many guilds aspiring to get to number one spot.
Now, normaly you would be right. Lack of competition, among other things makes people not want to play this game anymore. So when you reach top and maintain that top position, it gets harder to enjoy this game as before.
As top guild you have to then find another goals to achieve.
We have guild dungeons. Very interesting feature in this game, and we need entire guild to grow in order to defeat it.
Now I know that there are few other guilds on us servers that also want to be first to defeat all 50 dungeons, and I respect that.
Suggesting that we move players to other guilds, would make that goal unreachable. Never.
In order to grow, you need every bit of exp this game offers, including guild battles. When you lose that gain, its just not fair.
Playa has been doing great job so far in keeping this game interesting, but I would like to see this thing getting looked into.
  #30  
Old 06-13-2012, 03:35 AM
GeorgeKen GeorgeKen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goku View Post
Now I know that there are few other guilds on us servers that also want to be first to defeat all 50 dungeons, and I respect that.
Suggesting that we move players to other guilds, would make that goal unreachable. Never.
In order to grow, you need every bit of exp this game offers, including guild battles. When you lose that gain, its just not fair.
Playa has been doing great job so far in keeping this game interesting, but I would like to see this thing getting looked into.
that's exactly what i try to point out here, that instead of "breaking" our guilds, the guild battle system needs to change...

yes i know US servers are more active, but as i said its not activity that is the problem of the guild battles... It is that during this guild - battle system, the top guild in each server has to make A LOT of effort in order to keep on battling, and even then, they have a serious disadvantage against other guilds, because you have to lose a guild battle every 3-4 days in order to not surpass the 3.000 honor difference...
 

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