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  #21  
Old 08-04-2010, 08:19 PM
Bullbound Bullbound is offline
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They do. A mage ignores all armor.
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  #22  
Old 08-11-2010, 11:25 AM
Darius Darius is offline
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Scouts are the best, they pwn all.
  #23  
Old 08-12-2010, 01:34 PM
Areva Areva is offline
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Scouts have more than a 20% damage increase on warriors. Warriors have a 5x Con multiplier, while scouts have a 4x con multipier.

5x/4x=1.25.

Scoutz have a 25% damage increase on warriors. That's probably where the discrepency on your math was, galdon. Also, I think base damage is scaled by 1.4 per hit.

But in any case, per round:
Damage taken by Scout | Warrior
300 250
0 350
588 490
0 0
1152.48 960.4
0 1344.56
2258.8608 1882.384
0 0
4427.367168 3689.47264
0 5165.261696
8677.639649 7231.366374
0 0
17008.17371 14173.47809
0 19842.86933
33336.02048 27780.01706
0 0
65338.60013 54448.83345
0 76228.36682
128063.6563 106719.7136
0 0


Sum: 261150.7982 320556.723

The Warrior ends up taking 22.7% more damage than the scout. It's less than the HP difference, but if we were to add two more turns in, giving the scout one dodge, and the warrior no blocks, the warrior would end up taking more damage.

So if the weapon damage scales inversely with HP, it is still quite balanced.

Last edited by Areva; 08-12-2010 at 01:37 PM.
  #24  
Old 08-12-2010, 02:45 PM
urgone urgone is offline
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Don't forget...

A warrior also has one more item than a mage or scout. A warrior gets a shield whereas the scout just shows an arrow and the mage a puffball or something in his off hand.

This gives a significant boost to fighters, since that shield can be +10% Strength or a similar stat. Because an opponent's stat subtracts from your attack, this can be a larger difference than the original 10% appears. Scouts may be better than fighters, but it's more like 8% than 22%.
  #25  
Old 08-12-2010, 03:07 PM
galdon2004 galdon2004 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Areva View Post
The Warrior ends up taking 22.7% more damage than the scout. It's less than the HP difference, but if we were to add two more turns in, giving the scout one dodge, and the warrior no blocks, the warrior would end up taking more damage.

So if the weapon damage scales inversely with HP, it is still quite balanced.
I was judging the % on the average damage of players of each class, so if I happened to be in a zone where one class just happened not to have anybody with decent gear then it'd be off a bit.

I would mention that if adding 2 turns to give 1 dodge but no blocks would probably have the same effect as adding 4 turns to add 2 dodges and 1 block. In fact thinking about it as an array, if 1 was hit and 0 was block/evade

1,0,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,0
1,1,1,0,1,1,1,0,1,1,1,0

There are four statistical outcomes being; scout hits war misses, both miss, scout misses and war hits, and both hit. going with 500 base this time since its 25% increase in attack power not 20, in this spread the damage result would be the scout taking 21,754 damage and the warrior taking 22,426 damage.

Keeping the exact ratio though I seem to notice if you ramped it for more blocks toward the beginning..

1,0,0,1,0,0,1,0,0,1,1,1
1,0,0,1,1,0,1,1,1,1,1,1

The result is the scout taking 38,006 damage, and the warrior takes 34,251 damage. This scenario bares a good bit better for warriors, so if you start a fight with the scout dodging all your blows you are slightly more likely to make a last minute comeback, which is by the way exactly how any fight I have ever won with a scout has gone. On the other hand if blocks/evades happen later

1,1,1,0,0,1,0,0,1,0,0,1
1,1,1,1,1,1,0,1,1,0,0,1

the result comes up as 24,370 for scouts, and warriors take 21,552. I'm pretty sure everybody sees the pattern. In a statistically equivocal realm, on paper, it appears that the warrior can both outlive and out damage a scout despite the higher evade.

Yet somehow, in practice a scout typically beats a warrior who isn't massively overpowered (just look at the suggested technique for a warrior facing a dex dungeon monster, level up until you overlevel it too much for it to luck out on you anymore)

I think this has demonstrated a few things though, It shows why warriors seem to deal more damage than scouts even though scouts have 25% higher attack. it shows that in a scenario where each is given a limited number of damage avoidance the warrior ends up winning out since even the one where they do take more damage they don't take 20% more damage.

Since this and the actual play only has the single variation that the number of possible blocks and evades one can have is unchecked, that means that the actual typical result of a warrior fighting a scout can vary outragiously far based entirely on your own luck.

Does that mean I've mathematically proven that you can't mathematically prove weather scouts or warriors are stronger? Also, while this does seem a little off topic being that this is actually a thread of scouts vs mages, it is actually sort of on topic in that it shows that the gulf between warriors and scouts is generated purely by luck, and possibly a skewed random chance generator so the very slight advantage mages have is that they remove the luck factor for more predictable results, not that they are truly more powerful.

a skewed number generator result it can happen by accident, a good way to fix it is to when you generate a number, having a count up so say after you generate the number, multiply it by 10 so it ranges from 0 to 10 and assign that number to for this example n
if( n < 1){
evade=true;
} else if (n < 2){
evade=false;
} else if( n < 3){
evade=true;
} else if (n < 4){
evade=false;
} else if( n < 5){
evade=true;
} else if (n < 6){
evade=false;
} else if( n < 7){
evade=true;
} else if (n < 8){
evade=false;
} else if (n < 9){
evade=true;
} else {
evade=false;
}

.. rather than
if(n<6){
evade=true;
} else{
evade=false;
}

Yeah, its a lot more lines, but thanks to an even spread across the numbers, even if your generator randomly has a liking for the numbers between 2-5 for a string of 20 generations, you'll still have 50% rather than 100% of it being an evade result.

Last edited by galdon2004; 08-12-2010 at 03:39 PM. Reason: correcting the code
  #26  
Old 08-12-2010, 03:07 PM
Areva Areva is offline
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Their weapon + Shield gives the same stats as a bow or wand.

If you compare a few warriors and scouts of the same level, you'll notice that the warrior's combined stats are equal to the scout's stats on his bow.
  #27  
Old 08-12-2010, 03:42 PM
galdon2004 galdon2004 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Areva View Post
Their weapon + Shield gives the same stats as a bow or wand.

If you compare a few warriors and scouts of the same level, you'll notice that the warrior's combined stats are equal to the scout's stats on his bow.
I'm not talking about stats, I was referring to base damage. Everything effects stats, how many epics you've gotten, the potions you've chugged, how generous you are in donating to your guild, your luck in the arena for extra money. two characters who are the same class and level could have dramatically different stats. the weapon's ~damage amount is where the 25% difference comes from.

Last edited by galdon2004; 08-12-2010 at 03:45 PM.
 

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