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  #11  
Old 07-16-2010, 03:32 AM
Edthard Edthard is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2010
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i AGREE,
but adding abit into Strength, to TAKE away your advantage helps also.
As each round the Damage is increased, 1 good hit from the warrior will smash almost anything,
The Wizard has to Stand there and keep shooting and hitting and HOPE he can get your HP down before ANYONE gets a good hit on HIM. Absorbing alittle damage with Strength can let him last abit longer.
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  #12  
Old 07-16-2010, 03:57 AM
zmacatac zmacatac is offline
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i use weapons that hit higher not the ~# but max # and if it gives me int but i rather use a weeker weapon only if the int bonus on it makes me hit higher
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  #13  
Old 07-16-2010, 04:23 AM
BlueDude2 BlueDude2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edthard View Post
When you ATTACk others, you have a chance to setup you person..
After you are done, you need a GREAT protection. which can be hard.
you dont know WHO/WHAT will be aiming for you.

Fighting Wizards, your HP is going to save you. last long enough to hurt them.

Warriors, Avoidance will save you. you dont want to be hit to much.

Scouts, HIT them hard and fast. make every HIT HURT.
Okay. Now I see what you did there.

You are inverting the triangle without telling us.

To Scouts: When fighting wizards, invest in HP; last long enough to hurt them.

To Warriors: When fighting scouts, investing in Dex will decrease damage taken so battles last long enough to make victory possible.

To...


Okay, never mind. That's not what you were trying to do.

Quote:
i AGREE,
but adding abit into Strength, to TAKE away your advantage helps also.
As each round the Damage is increased, 1 good hit from the warrior will smash almost anything,
The Wizard has to Stand there and keep shooting and hitting and HOPE he can get your HP down before ANYONE gets a good hit on HIM. Absorbing alittle damage with Strength can let him last abit longer.
This, I assume, is advice for... mages?

Alright, Edthard. You entered the conversation mentioning:
Quote:
If your BASE stats arent up, then changing around isnt going to help defend you.
Assuming you are still trying to push the point of having an "everyman" strategy, I'll try to answer it with my general strategy for the game...

In ten days, I'll gain ten levels and no amount of STR/DEX your mage is trying to pound in over that time is going to make a difference to my warrior and my scout friends that are in a whole new tax bracket including more stats by way of phatter city guard and better equips and dungeon drops.

Gear (like +ALL gear) really should be making up the bulk of your class-based defense until City Guard can cover the cost of bumping up the bases on those stats. Making tertiary stats meaningful is mostly useful only to slow-leveling mages (who are better off, because they can actually LOSE tavern quests in addition to arenas). I suppose Scouts also may find it helpful to offset some of their 'randomness' but largely HP covers that base.

I'm really trying to wrap my head around what you are mentioning; however, I see it as problematic.

Looking at it another way:
If I'm a mage that builds up my tertiary stats to offset, if I raise both, I don't deal enough damage to compete with other mages. Also, a sufficiently over-primary-statted warrior or scout busts through my strategy because each point I invest is only 1/2 of a point they invest.

If I'm a mage raising only strength (not dex) to cover my Achilles' Heel and still output major damage to keep the scouts at bay, warrior's will probably just walk past me because it's not worth it, but a high luck or high con scout can still break me down since they have TWICE my HP and aren't as feather-touch damage as warriors.

If I'm a mage raising only dex (not strength) to solidify my victory against scouts, of course I become the favorite chew toy of warriors while scouts which already avoid me simply continue their wise course of action.

On the other hand, a mage that invests in Int/Con/Luk or any combination of those becomes a) HP annoying, damage annoying, crit annoying to warriors b)HP annoying, damage annoying, crit annoying to scouts c) HP annoying, damage annoying, crit annoying, very competitive to other mages.

While it is true that mages have the most to gain from doping stats into tertiaries, every class benefits the most from Primary/Con/Luck in that order, and while equipment is the best (and possibly only) way to keep those stats high, other players in the same class need only a slight edge (26% more primary equals double damage guys...) to get a mirror-class advantage, and also get the most bang for the buck against opponents.

The reason for spare gear is that situationally an extra 10% stat-based damage reduction can put a close battle over the edge.

Reconsidering, however, as I've noticed that with a sufficient number of players, taking more time to find better targets is typically easier (and more economically strategic) than keeping spares around. I still keep spares as the gold from them doesn't translate to alot of stats these days (50% of a point of Con?) but to be honest, I usually don't have to use them because there are so many soft targets that aren't really that close enough in combat to merit the risk.

My new recommendation? If you're character isn't yet over-the-top badass, spare gear may be the strategy for you. If you're character IS an OTP 8@|)4$$, then stay on the course and save your money for that lucky epic one day.
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  #14  
Old 07-16-2010, 12:56 PM
Edthard Edthard is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 135
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Thats pretty good.
Keep your basics UP. add AT LEAST 20-25% luck.
Dont worry a bunch about those extra skills, until later.
The problem Iv seen, is..
The Tavern missions the Stats for the NPC's dont match up 1/2 the time.
A fighter with Max Dex or INT?? really makes it interesting.
Then comes the Dungeons. Yes we can see the basic Stats, but NOT all of it. That Tarantula is KILLING ME..I can match/better his stats, but he hits for 20K the first round. And he is DEX heavy. So I cant tell if he is a fighter with GOOD dex, or a Scout with Fair Strength, or a Wizard with protection in Both Str and DEX.
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  #15  
Old 07-16-2010, 01:25 PM
BlueDude2 BlueDude2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edthard View Post
Thats pretty good.
Keep your basics UP. add AT LEAST 20-25% luck.
Dont worry a bunch about those extra skills, until later.
The problem Iv seen, is..
The Tavern missions the Stats for the NPC's dont match up 1/2 the time.
A fighter with Max Dex or INT?? really makes it interesting.
Then comes the Dungeons. Yes we can see the basic Stats, but NOT all of it. That Tarantula is KILLING ME..I can match/better his stats, but he hits for 20K the first round. And he is DEX heavy. So I cant tell if he is a fighter with GOOD dex, or a Scout with Fair Strength, or a Wizard with protection in Both Str and DEX.
The weapons they use mean nothing. The highest stat on an NPC is their attack stat. Yes, I've seen a 'Suprino' shooting 'magical' arrows from a crossbow and been hit with 'Dexterous' stones from a Hill giant.

If you aren't a mage, the tarantula is probably just getting lucky. Raise con, raise dex, and try try again.
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  #16  
Old 07-17-2010, 02:32 PM
Edthard Edthard is offline
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That spider is getting 20k hits from the start.
He dont have that much LUCK to cause that much damage.
he has to have a great/rare weapon.

Layer 3 = Level 42 Terror Tarantula (Strength: 205 Dexterity: 726 Intelligence: 224 Constitution: 403 Luck: 247) Hit points: 69316

He has the Con of a warrior
Dex of a scout
Luck 5*Luck / enemy lvl *2..would give him 17.1%.
Str dont show he is a warrior, and couldnt hit me HARD if it was based on STR. His dex is high enough, but I cant see HOW he gets that much damage. weapon damage*(1+dex/10), Crit on first attack 20K make it 10k.
Weapon damage*72.7=10k?? 138? hmmm??? NICE weapon.

and my luck to him is 21%
My dex is 44 points below his..
and Im 6 lvl Lower..

I will get him..eventually. but his numbers dont Quite add up.
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  #17  
Old 07-17-2010, 09:16 PM
Fairie Fairie is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 335
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I don't think the monsters are supposed to be equatable to fighting another player or even pidgeon-holed in to classes. They're their own thing so their stats are kinda all over the place. Just my opinion anyway.
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  #18  
Old 07-18-2010, 01:23 AM
BlueDude2 BlueDude2 is offline
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Join Date: May 2010
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Actually, friends, he is indeed a Dex NPC as pointed out before.

Level 42 Terror Tarantula (Strength: 205 Dexterity: 726 Intelligence: 224 Constitution: 403 Luck: 247) Hit points: 69316

403*4*43 = 69316, you can check that on a calculator.

Him doing high damage is LIKELY a result of you're character needing MORE ARMOR and MORE DEX which are the only ways to reduce damage. You can't measure crit on an npc because, as an Internet meme eloquently puts it, "The RNG hates you." If a monster has a 1% crit, it will still crit you at the worst possible time 1 in 100 times or 3 in 300 times, and you'll only see 1 of those 297 other times.

A guide on these forums recommends buffing the defense stat until you beat that dungeon critter. This same guide also recommends that you slow down your leveling. I suggest differently. There is no shame in being 4 levels over the dungeon monster before you beat it. You don't get an equipment penalty (it always calculates the lower level between the two) and the crit mitigation and overcoming their hidden armor stat and bonus HP are always appreciated in a game where a streak of bad luck can murder you.

Keeping with the topic, though, and not making this all about your situ; consider that with a few more points of that defensive stat on some cheap gear one day in the weapon shop can actually PROFIT you if it helps you beat it. Dex gear tends to be cheaper to warriors and mages, at least in my experience. Buying one or two pieces that I can sell right back after might put me over the edge to winning the dungeon battle, bagging that phat exp and the phat gold loot at a very nominal gold loss in comparison to the winnings.
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  #19  
Old 07-18-2010, 09:21 AM
Fairie Fairie is offline
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So far I've been getting Epics that give a bonus to all my stats, and that's great over all but as a warrior I need my strength to be as high as possible. So when I see items in the shop that give me a better boost to my main stats I really have to think 'does this boost make up for the drop in everything else?' So if I keep extra gear I can keep myself competitive and balanced over all when I need it, ^_^ and not sell my pretty epics but that's another matter.
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  #20  
Old 07-18-2010, 01:11 PM
Edthard Edthard is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 135
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Blue,
and I mentioned Im a Scout?
He is knocking me out in 3-4 hits..
Iv got 63000HP
And dex at 685..
weapon 58-106..
Either he is getting Major HITS all the time,
or he has a GREAT weapon..as CRITS are at 20K in the FIRST ROUND.

but I beat him...He didnt CRIT me..Finally.

Last edited by Edthard; 07-18-2010 at 01:12 PM.
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