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  #21  
Old 11-10-2011, 02:53 PM
ToscanToss ToscanToss is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charista View Post
I suspect that they might let you keep the lowest level account if your use of the multiples wasn't abusive. If you did something heinous with them, though, I suspect they want the player gone, but if you just innocently had, say, three characters and they all belonged to the same guild, the player hasn't hurt anyone, so they might be nice.
See, that just further muddles all...

But first, again with these 'heinous' acts... How? I hope you don't mean PvP battles, retaliation of that sort... in a game that is partially PvP-based.

A heinous act... Yes, it's possible. Threats, insults, harassment - sexual or otherwise - through messages, be they private or instant (I've seen them, documented them, acted on behalf of those facing them, reported them, etc.) or by other illegal means.

'Heinous' more generally refers to criminal acts. I'd apply it to war crimes as well, genocides, etc.

As I said, I hope you don't equate PvP battles, retaliation, swift 2-minute spamming in response to drawn-out, days-, or weeks-long incessant and annoying pecking - in a game (!) which allows for them, even facilitates their occurrence (!) and most definitely does not deem them an offence, something to be prevented, forbidden, or even discouraged, much less deserving of a 'ban' (whatever that word means in its diluted, disputed form...), to those truly heinous acts, thereby diluting the seriousness of such acts, and nearly belittling, insulting their victims.

If you do... well, that tells of a very sheltered life. Too sheltered. Or a very limited awareness of the world and of suffering. I don't know, honestly: I don't know what to make of it. I suppose some are lucky that way. Good for them.

But I take issue with the bandying about of such a word in a gaming environment, applied to in-game actions that are not criminal, not illegal, while the world is full of suffering, and full of truly heinous acts.

If you do use the word in such a way, then, on behalf of the victims of true heinous acts (but also on behalf of players who have never committed such an act, and even fought them in 'real life!') I will very emphatically ask you: please stop.

(I mean it. I'm not on a soapbox, I'm on the edge of outrage.)

As to multi-accounts... Like I said before: double-talk... forbidden, but not... banned, but not... yes, but no...

That just makes for murky, shifting ground, quagmire, a lot of time-wasting, fruitless hemming and hawing...

... it leads to meaningless rules.

And, eventually, an open, unofficial interpretation of absolutely everything, including botting, and whatever infractions, including truly heinous acts!

This is a game, and a relatively simple one at that.
This is not the UN, not the real world, with its complex interconnectedness of causes and effects, delicate balances of power, and difficulty of decisions for fear of serious global implications.

Enough. Please. (Some perspective?... Every now and again?... A small step back?)

Either there are rules, and there is enforcement, or there aren't, and there isn't.

This should be a bit simpler - yes, I also realise it isn't necessarily 'easy,' it can be difficult and time-consuming.
But it is made worse by starting off by saying 'well, it's this, but really it isn't, it's the other thing, and the third, and then there's also...'
You can't build much on shifting sands (or marshland, unsound foundation, blah blah).

'Selective,' biased enforcement, or unenforced, or unenforceable rules only create confusion, and, eventually, an equal disregard for all of them.

I realise too, that this is the way it is, that this is the way it 'has to be' ...
But that just gives the impression of unreliability, confusion, contradiction, unaccountability, obliqueness, and of unnecessary - or even worse: intentional - lack of transparency.

At this rate, I'm going to stop playing and paying, between all the game-related sanctimonious pontificating and game-centred dogma, and the wishy-washy hemming and hawing back and forth.

(I apologise for feeling strongly about the former, and being somewhat fed up with the latter issue - I realise this might be a very sheltered, delicate, fragile, control- and censorship-driven microcosm here, where only a game title, a company, and related legalities matter, not the 'bigger picture,' not abstraction, not humanity at large... or whatever, you know, like... things and stuff...)
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Last edited by ToscanToss; 11-10-2011 at 02:57 PM.
  #22  
Old 11-10-2011, 03:54 PM
Bullbound Bullbound is offline
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ToscanToss, if you read iTZKooPA's comments on the bot detector, you would have seen that not all bans are permanent, but some are temporary. This allows for both mine and iTZKooPA's comments as stated earlier, to both be true. There are times where a banned account has been revealed to have been banned in error, as an example. This turns the ban into a temporary issue as it is reversed. However, the true cases of multiple accounts are still banned.
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  #23  
Old 11-10-2011, 07:57 PM
Charista Charista is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToscanToss View Post
But first, again with these 'heinous' acts... How?
It is inappropriate to describe violations of the Terms. I am not going to teach you how to cheat.
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  #24  
Old 11-10-2011, 08:34 PM
Darstard Darstard is offline
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Charista: I think he meant, "How could anything someone does in S&F be heinous?" by the definition he then described. I don't think he meant for you to tell him how to cheat.

ToscanToss: by their nature, games are microcosms. They are within their own walls, lines , boxes, cages or virtual worlds the end all and be all. There are ways to draw parallels between what goes on in a game and what goes on in life, of course, and that is why we can learn so much about life from playing games. Generally, games provide a much more rigid structure than life, which is why lessons in games are more easily learned, and then it's only a matter of applying those learned lessons and understandings to the more shaded and slipperly nature of real life, which is why you're looking for more clearly defined rules here and are uncomfortable that you can't find them. What I find very interesting is that then you say almost the opposite and wish the game and forum were more like life. Really though, most of us are here to distract ourselves from life. If we weren't the forum and guild chat would be full of conversations about the ongoing situation in the middle east, the debt crisis in Europe, earthquakes in Turkey, the sit-ins in North America, upcoming tests/exams/term papers, relationship issues and personal finance challenges and job dissatisfaction. It's not though, because we're hopping into the S&F box to get away from all that.

Here, in S&F wonderland on this side of the looking glass, rather than having a caterpillar smoking opium all the time, bans can be temporary or permanent. That doesn't make it such a bad place does it?? Come on back into the sandbox - we're having fun!!
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  #25  
Old 11-10-2011, 11:06 PM
Bullbound Bullbound is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charista View Post
I suspect that they might let you keep the lowest level account if your use of the multiples wasn't abusive. If you did something heinous with them, though, I suspect they want the player gone, but if you just innocently had, say, three characters and they all belonged to the same guild, the player hasn't hurt anyone, so they might be nice.
Actually, they haven't said that in any manner. The rules about multiple accounts have been made as clear as possible and Playa Games does enforce them to the best of their ability within the confines of their scope.
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  #26  
Old 11-11-2011, 05:03 PM
ToscanToss ToscanToss is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darstard View Post
Charista: I think he meant, "How could anything someone does in S&F be heinous?" by the definition he then described. I don't think he meant for you to tell him how to cheat.

ToscanToss: by their nature, games are microcosms. They are within their own walls, lines , boxes, cages or virtual worlds the end all and be all. There are ways to draw parallels between what goes on in a game and what goes on in life, of course, and that is why we can learn so much about life from playing games. Generally, games provide a much more rigid structure than life, which is why lessons in games are more easily learned, and then it's only a matter of applying those learned lessons and understandings to the more shaded and slipperly nature of real life, which is why you're looking for more clearly defined rules here and are uncomfortable that you can't find them. What I find very interesting is that then you say almost the opposite and wish the game and forum were more like life. Really though, most of us are here to distract ourselves from life. If we weren't the forum and guild chat would be full of conversations about the ongoing situation in the middle east, the debt crisis in Europe, earthquakes in Turkey, the sit-ins in North America, upcoming tests/exams/term papers, relationship issues and personal finance challenges and job dissatisfaction. It's not though, because we're hopping into the S&F box to get away from all that.

Here, in S&F wonderland on this side of the looking glass, rather than having a caterpillar smoking opium all the time, bans can be temporary or permanent. That doesn't make it such a bad place does it?? Come on back into the sandbox - we're having fun!!
You've got it, Darstard, and thank you.

I have the interest in reading your posts and those of others, but not my own, generally (not enough narcissism - or patience), so I'm not sure atm what I was saying...

(Although I wasn't hoping to turn the game or the forum into a real-world image, no way! In fact I was trying to say, this is just a game, not the real world, rules and decisions can and should be simpler, more clearly defined - of the opposite, we have enough in the meat world...

And also, that real-world allusions and references, including 'heinous acts,' should be kept away from the game environment as much as possible, in the interest of both: a) - the game and b) - the real world...

The former, so that the game and its players do not get labelled for essentially harmless in-game actions - supported by the game mechanics - in ways that only humanity's worst enemies deserve to be in real life...

The latter, so that neither the perpetrators, nor the victims of such acts in the real world are made light of, even unintentionally, by connecting in-game actions, however tenuously, to real-world crimes and atrocities.)

Sorry if it was bitter, and sorry if I ended up regurgitating my bitterness through my post[s] lately... I'm trying not to let that influence my posts today, at least.

That was a beautiful, heartfelt post, insightful too, Darstard...

(And thanks again for the kind words. )
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