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  #1  
Old 10-19-2010, 09:14 AM
iTZKooPA iTZKooPA is offline
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Exclamation Guild Dungeons - Likes and Dislikes

The guild dungeons have been in the wild for a bit now. Even the high end guilds are seeing their progress slow down. I was wondering what everybody thinks of them. Your responses will help Playa Games decide in what direction to go next, so please voice your constructive opinion.

Here's some starter topics:
  • Are the dungeons too difficult?
  • Do you feel that the rewards are adequate to the challenge?
  • Is the progression too fast, too slow, or just right?
  • Do you enjoy challenges in your games?
  • Did you expect a different battle system for guild dungeons?
  • How do you like the art?

Please let me know the circumstance of your guild (casual, hardcore) and the average level to your best guess of the players.
  #2  
Old 10-19-2010, 10:48 AM
JimJones JimJones is offline
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Default guild dungeon response

I for one have been very disappointed on what I have seen in the guild raids so far.

They are too difficult (the two top guilds are not really even close to finishing dungeon 18, so much so that they only tried it once. There are 50 of these? Whats the point, we will likely never see past 25 at this rate.

They are really boring and lack much originality. I guess I was just expecting more than just beefed up minions with lots and lots and lots of HP.

The rewards are monotonous. Who really cares if you get an extra few percentage to your exp and gold in a level - in reality, if you are getting bored of the game, the incentive to gain your levels a little bit faster really isn't the change you are looking for.

I was hoping for some original concepts, new equipment, perhaps a means of letting guilds expand a couple slots by finishing content.

The artwork on a couple of the monsters is ok, some are somewhat funny, but in all fairness, my 8 year old has drawn some pretty comparable sketches.

My reaction is that the dungeons do not live up to my expectations, especially with the 4 months of delays that we endured to get them.
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  #3  
Old 10-19-2010, 11:40 AM
Charista Charista is offline
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* Are the dungeons too difficult?

No. Unlike the player dungeons, they have been sticking quite close to character strength. The vast majority of guilds cannot beat a GD boss higher level than their own highest level character, except for Water Deep and Zombunny. I think that's perfect. (You don't get a praise like that from me often.)

* Do you feel that the rewards are adequate to the challenge?

Hrm... 2% exp and gold only make up for the higher slowdown of level/day. While we just had a big jump in rewards from massive dungeon kills, in the long run it's 2% / 10 levels. The slowdown is much faster than that, so for the long run, it won't feel like it.

People like more visceral rewards, like Epics. They are much more likely to notice that.

* Is the progression too fast, too slow, or just right?

Since it takes a minimum of 20 days for high level players to gain 10 levels, that means defeating 1 GD every 20 days or so. That might be too slow over the long haul.

* Do you enjoy challenges in your games?

Anyone that answers no is lying. It would be more appropriate to ask "Is this particular challenge new and different enough to interest you?"

I suspect that, if these question came from marketing, it's fitting into someone's personal agenda.

* Did you expect a different battle system for guild dungeons?

Earlier reports indicated only one monster, but I thought that wouldn't fly, so I was hoping for something more like this. While I wasn't expecting 12 yard trash, it's much better than 5.

* How do you like the art?

Sorry to say that some of them aren't funny enough, sorry. This is a funny comic, and some of these just aren't laughable enough.

Now, my responses that do NOT fit the questions:

I am concerned that the low level yard trash is ramping up in level too quickly. All guilds have their non-shroomers, so the low level yard trash needs to be designed for them. D14 has a low yard trash of L96, but while the Endless is short of killing the boss by only 5%, the L96 yard trash is ripping the heart out of our L50's-70's. The reality of the math is that the Yard Trash really doesn't affect the overall power of the dungeon, so keeping the lowest dungeon monsters at a slower rate won't hurt the overall difficulty.

Even at L200, you can tell that the high level shroomers can make 40% of a level per day, if they choose. A non-shroomer at L100 can only make 30%. That means the low level non-shroomer will not keep up with the levels/day curve, and so the low level yard trash advancing at 10 levels/dungeon is simply too much for them. They are getting trivialized. Ultimately, in the rare case of a true non-shroomer making L150, they're only going to gain 1 level per week at best, so in 20 days, their yard trash should only be advancing at 3 levels/dungeon. over the long term steady state.

Monsters:
Identifying Mage Monsters is hard,m because they have no identifiable combat feature. Adding (Mage), (Warrior), and (Scout) to the description would be really nice, because unlike normal dungeons, we can't see their stats.

For that matter: too few Mage bosses. Shouldn't the Goblin Mage have actually been a Mage and not a scout?

__

I may add more later.
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Zombunny: RIP
Time of Death: 17:32 PDT November 14, 2011
It has passed into Myth and Legend.

http://zombunny.guildlaunch.com/index.php?gid=236408
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  #4  
Old 10-20-2010, 11:19 AM
Con Mage Con Mage is offline
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I used to like everything about the Guild Raids until they took the extra fortress rank out of the rewards. I hope they add random epics to the reward.
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  #5  
Old 10-21-2010, 06:50 AM
Tyraell Tyraell is offline
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Are the dungeons too difficult?
No
Do you feel that the rewards are adequate to the challenge?
I'd prefer more Exp
Is the progression too fast, too slow, or just right?
It's right
Do you enjoy challenges in your games?
Yes
Did you expect a different battle system for guild dungeons?
No
How do you like the art?
Awesome!
  #6  
Old 10-21-2010, 08:58 AM
OddBird OddBird is offline
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  • Are the dungeons too difficult?

    I do not feel that they are too difficult. It would be a shame if any of the top guilds were able to run through all 50 dungeons already, and I like having something to work toward.

  • Do you feel that the rewards are adequate to the challenge?

    More importantly than the challenge, the incredibly high cost of guild dungeons means there is more at risk when you attempt one. Everyone absolutely needs to prep, so there needs to be more planning. So as far as risk vs. reward goes - no, I'd say the reward is too small for the gold risk. At least, for a smaller guild such as the one I'm in. 220k took around a week to save up, and the next dungeon will take even longer to save for. A loss would be a very painful setback. I'd really like to see Epic items as at least a reward possibility.

  • Is the progression too fast, too slow, or just right?

    As with the difficulty question, I feel the progression is appropriate. I can actually measure our progress vs the bosses by recording the fights, and we leveled enough to do better against the 2nd boss than the first. Perhaps progression should speed up a little near the end, given the commentary left regarding the difficulties higher leveled guilds are facing, but where I'm at now it seems very appropriate.

  • Do you enjoy challenges in your games?

    No, I hate them. I really like games where I don't have to do anything, and then I win.

  • Did you expect a different battle system for guild dungeons?

    I actually thought the progression of monsters within a given dungeon would be different. As it is, the first few are incredibly weak, and then there's a sudden ramp up to the boss. If this is intended solely so the weak players will not die, it fails for our guild; our weakest player kills the first several, and then as soon as ramping up begins, they die and the other weaker players begin dying as well. It's more like hitting a wall than ramping up. Otherwise, the battle system is...well...pretty much exactly what I expected. Nothing shocking at all.

  • How do you like the art?

    It's quirky and amusing. I never fell out of my chair laughing, as it seems some might have expected to, but I like it.
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  #7  
Old 10-21-2010, 11:49 AM
Spikednal Spikednal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iTZKooPA View Post
Here's some starter topics:
  • Are the dungeons too difficult?
  • Do you feel that the rewards are adequate to the challenge?
  • Is the progression too fast, too slow, or just right?
  • Do you enjoy challenges in your games?
  • Did you expect a different battle system for guild dungeons?
  • How do you like the art?
1. I think the dungeons are fine the way they are. If they were any easier, then Guilds would be able to just cruise through them, and if they were harder, then some players would give up even trying to defeat them.

2. I was a little disappointed with the rewards. It would be nice if some Guild Treasure (gold) could be included. Make it equate to the Guild in some way. I'm not sure if epics are the way to go; because epics are usually geared towards the characters level and this would allow the upper ranking Guilds to be totally dominant. Maybe an extra nice item that is geared towards the players level and class.

3. I have no complaints about the progression.

4. Challanges are what make the game, in my opinion; but it has to be balanced. To easy and the game becomes boring. To hard and after a time, people stop playing.

5. I wan't sure what to expect. I thought that maybe the Dungeon(s) would have a specific theme: Haunted House, Diseased Sewer, Spooky Forest, etc; with the monsters being part of that theme.

6. The art is alright; but I did think we would see more monsters, that were different from the normal quest monsters.

As to all the complaints, except for the bugs; haters are going to hate and some people will never be happy, unless everything is the way they want it.
  #8  
Old 10-22-2010, 12:45 PM
mxv088000 mxv088000 is offline
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The dungeons as they are are currently to difficult. You need to give your customers a challenge, but an obtainable challenge. It will take a full guild of 300+ to defeat the final dungeon im assuming. And no one will stay interested that long.

The rewards are fine i think, like most though epics would be nice... But even more so I think you should allow the fortress to actually raise, and allow more guild members.

Allowing more members to join a guild will change the dynamic of the game incredibly. Basically it will make other guilds merge and I think it would definitely change the top 15 guild dynamics quickly. This is the best bet to keep you customer interested in the short them.

This would also allow further guild progression in the dungeons.



Overall the guild dungeons are quite disappointing. We have already lost 4-5 players in Water Deep due to the disappointment in guild dungeons. I am sure this will begin to cascade and more will begin to quit, unless the devs do something to keep our interest.
  #9  
Old 11-02-2010, 01:18 PM
Subzeroqc Subzeroqc is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimJones View Post
I for one have been very disappointed on what I have seen in the guild raids so far.

They are too difficult (the two top guilds are not really even close to finishing dungeon 18, so much so that they only tried it once. There are 50 of these? Whats the point, we will likely never see past 25 at this rate.

They are really boring and lack much originality. I guess I was just expecting more than just beefed up minions with lots and lots and lots of HP.

The rewards are monotonous. Who really cares if you get an extra few percentage to your exp and gold in a level - in reality, if you are getting bored of the game, the incentive to gain your levels a little bit faster really isn't the change you are looking for.

I was hoping for some original concepts, new equipment, perhaps a means of letting guilds expand a couple slots by finishing content.

The artwork on a couple of the monsters is ok, some are somewhat funny, but in all fairness, my 8 year old has drawn some pretty comparable sketches.

My reaction is that the dungeons do not live up to my expectations, especially with the 4 months of delays that we endured to get them.
/thread.
  #10  
Old 11-05-2010, 04:08 PM
Monopz Monopz is offline
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There is only things to dislike about the guild dungeons.

They will force only a super power guild to form which can beat the dungeons as fast as possible. This will make every other guild below them become obsolete and people will only join them as a last resort.

The "balance" you guys initiated was a total joke and is extremely unbalanced. I mean giving some exp and maybe an item reward for all involved would be MUCH better, since most guilds will not carry a level 10 so he can get a ridiculous item from a guild dungeon that is far beyond his level.

Once a guild has an insurmountable lead on the guild dungeon clearing they will be the ultimate guild and no guild will ever compete unless all the lower guilds like the #2 and #3 merge.

But really if this is just supposed to be a "must level as fast as possible game" then be prepared for mass turnover.
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Last edited by Monopz; 11-05-2010 at 04:10 PM.
 

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