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  #51  
Old 11-10-2011, 09:17 PM
Darstard Darstard is offline
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As a shroomer and Max XP player, I've had a very different experience, Debasser, but that in no way invalidates your experience. That was a very thoughtful and well laid out post, thank you!
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  #52  
Old 11-10-2011, 10:04 PM
Debaser Debaser is offline
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Thanks!!! I have shroomed a few times when there were sales, but tried to conserve, I don't have a ton of disposable income to throw at this game. I tend to get a Raptor these days, but Griffins are better of course....the main conflict with a warrior is that they have to be maintained diligently, it takes more effort I think....albeit slight. And there are times when I slack off and do my own thing, I don't play this game religiously, I play it because it's fun. However most days I can put about an hour of time in the background whilst doing other things and get my quests out of the way saving up to buff stats.
  #53  
Old 11-10-2011, 11:16 PM
blackhatnot blackhatnot is offline
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You make some great points about building stats carefully, Debaser.

However, after reading through your post, I spotted a little flaw in the logic behind it.

You state that you believe warriors are late bloomers. Does this not mean that logically, you should be trying to level as fast as possible to get to this "late" stage in the game?

Another thing I must argue with you is the source of the stats itself. It is evident that stats from equipment is much, much more cost-effective than increasing your base stats (once you reach a certain level, that is. I believe roughly around level 50-60). For example, it costs me 26318 gold to increase my Intelligence by 1 (I am a mage, in case you are wondering). A piece of equipment that increases my intelligence by 8 only costs 38828 gold. That's 26318 gold-per-point versus 4778.5 gold-per-point; the latter is actually lower, since I can sell the piece of equipment that I replaced.

My point is, yes, going the high gold route should initially result in fast increases in your stats, but the fact that items are more cost-effective and that item stats scale with level leads me to believe that leveling up fast is the smarter thing to do in the long run. Not to mention, quest rewards scale with level too. Somebody who is fully concentrated on leveling quickly will eventually get similar gold rewards per quest as a slow leveler, even when they are choosing quests with high XP rewards.

With all that said, though, I must remind everyone who reads this that this is all personal experience, backed with information that I have gathered from other players of the game. Also, I currently only have one character, so any comparisons I make are all with characters belonging to another character. This means there are too many uncontrolled variables (does he spend the same amount of thirst as me? does he maximize efficiently?) for these comparisons to be fail-safe. Maybe one day I will start a character on another server and go the high-gold route, and document my progress. But for now, I'm just concentrating on catching the guys at the top of the Hall of Fame.

As a bit of... anecdotal evidence, if you will... I started playing on server 4 on September 6th, 2011, 3 months after server launch. I am now ranked 70; it's true that my base stats are not as high as players around me in rankings, but my equipment more than make up for that difference. Again, this could be because not everybody spends 300 thirst a day. But on the other hand, it could also be because I chose to follow Charista's and many others' footsteps (a shout-out to Darstard is required here, too, I believe, because he is so very helpful on these forums).

And that's that! I'm not telling you how to play the game, but I strongly urge everybody to take a good read at Charista's very well-written guide to maximizing experience, because it contains very, very useful information that should help you decide whether you want to continue going for high gold gains or high experience gains.

Back on topic: My past arena history suggests that Mages and Scouts have much better results going for extremely high main-stat and low-ish Constitution than Warriors. For Mages, it works because their damage is simply through the roof. For Scouts, their 50% evasion buffs up their effective HP, and their damage is not too shabby either. Warriors, on the other hand, do pretty terrible damage even with high Strength (at least the warriors that hit me have been doing terrible damage). So going for high Strength and low Constitution as a Warrior will only result in Mages and Scouts beating you in the damage game anyway. I think the idea that warriors are "weak" spawned from the fact that many players do not realize this, go for the high-STR-low-CON build, see sub-par results, and conclude that Warriors are weak.

It's true that high Strength gives you an easier time beating other Warriors, but purely stacking Strength comes at the hefty price of having really low crit-rates and lower HP. Yes, having more STR than another warrior means you mitigate more of his damage than he does yours, but if he is higher level than you and has a much better weapon damage range, this mitigation will be overcome by his raw damage. Which brings me back to my other point. Level fast! Higher level weapons make a huge difference in this game.

TL;DR: As many have said before me, Warriors are strong if you build them properly. It just appears that their "proper" build takes a bit more planning than Mages and possibly Scouts (I only play a Mage so I can't say definitively). How you choose to build your Warrior (high base-stat, slow leveling or level fast and gain stats through items) is completely up to you.

Last edited by blackhatnot; 11-10-2011 at 11:45 PM.
  #54  
Old 11-10-2011, 11:38 PM
Debaser Debaser is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackhatnot View Post
You make some great points about building stats carefully, Debaser.

However, after reading through your post, I spotted a little flaw in the logic behind it.

You state that you believe warriors are late bloomers. Does this not mean that logically, you should be trying to level as fast as possible to get to this "late" stage in the game?

Another thing I must argue with you is the building of stats itself. It is evident that stats from equipment is much, much more cost-effective than increasing your base stats (once you reach a certain level, that is. I believe roughly around level 50-60). For example, it costs me 26318 gold to increase my Intelligence by 1 (I am a mage, in case you are wondering). A piece of equipment that increases my intelligence by 8 only costs 38828 gold. That's 26318 gold-per-point versus 4778.5 gold-per-point; the latter is actually lower, since I can sell the piece of equipment that I replaced.

My point is, yes, going the high gold route should initially result in fast increases in your stats, but the fact that items are more cost-effective and that item stats scale with level leads me to believe that leveling up fast is the smarter thing to do in the long run. Not to mention, quest rewards scale with level too. Somebody who is fully concentrated on leveling quickly will eventually get similar gold rewards per quest as a slow leveler, even when they are choosing quests with high XP rewards.

With all that said, though, I must remind everyone who reads this that this is all personal experience, backed with information that I have gathered from other players of the game. Also, I currently only have one character, so any comparisons I make are all with characters belonging to another character. This means there are too many uncontrolled variables (does he spend the same amount of thirst as me? does he maximize efficiently?) for these comparisons to be fail-safe. Maybe one day I will start a character on another server and go the high-gold route, and document my progress. But for now, I'm just concentrating on catching the guys at the top of the Hall of Fame.

As a bit of... anecdotal evidence, if you will... I started playing on server 4 on September 6th, 2011, 3 months after server launch. I am now ranked 70; it's true that my base stats are not as high as players around me in rankings, but my equipment more than make up for that difference. Again, this could be because not everybody spends 300 thirst a day. But on the other hand, it could also be because I chose to follow Charista's and many others' footsteps (a shout-out to Darstard is required here, too, I believe, because he is so very helpful on these forums).

And that's that! I'm not telling you how to play the game, but I strongly urge everybody to take a good read at Charista's very well-written guide to maximizing experience, because it contains very, very useful information that should help you decide whether you want to continue going for high gold gains or high experience gains.
At a glance, you would expect that just constantly gaining levels would be best I suppose. But as expensive as stats are, if I'm not shrooming to get new gear in the shops constantly, boosting stats is a fine alternative, also if I'm not shrooming as often for thirst, *which does happen at times, but I tend to be cautious with spending mushrooms as I tend to save them for epics*, what I will tend to do is wait for STR based weapons with high DPS to appear while keeping my build with my 1200-1300 stat boost to STR over CON total in mind. As much as your math breakdown of gaining new gear is true, you can only upgrade gear so much per level gained as well, whereas stats are CUMULATIVE and will remain with you as you gain levels slowly, pushing you to a much more destructive place in guild fights especially (where I tend to kill players even twenty levels higher than me if they're not well balanced statwise) maybe you don't proceed as fast, but you are stronger as you go. That's the trade. Since a warrior has it tough from the getgo and is obviously weaker at the start of the game, it's to those players who would play as a warrior's advantage to keep this in mind in order to compensate. It's really easy to make a mage who will do well in the arena to start without over-thinking it.

It will take me longer, but eventually people get bored and stop playing, the scoreboard shifts and when I'm high enough to compete with top players I will have access to top level gear AND I will retain my stats on a cumulative curve. Factor in the HP I will have say even just 100 levels from now, and fighting with players within my reach will continue to get even easier.

Last edited by Debaser; 11-10-2011 at 11:41 PM.
  #55  
Old 11-11-2011, 12:21 AM
blackhatnot blackhatnot is offline
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Debaser, it is well thought-out posts like these that really stimulate discussion and allow people to make better choices regarding gameplay choices, so thank you!

I really wish we had solid evidence to solve this debate. What I have in mind is to create two characters simultaneously (on separate servers, of course), spend the exact same amount of time and thirst on them, but have one go the gold route and one go the experience route. If possible, keep gold and experience bonuses equal (maybe not join a guild, and don't buy a scrapbook). After a month, compare the two characters and see which one is stronger.

Until such evidence can be provided, I'm afraid we will have to agree to disagree
  #56  
Old 11-11-2011, 12:37 AM
Debaser Debaser is offline
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I appreciate the compliment! All I know is I shroomed in the beginning and gave my gold to my guild while power leveling. We maxed it out, and I shifted to gold, and stopped shrooming, and my record as a fighter improved. But then again, we also play different classes. I think in the warriors case things are unbalanced, and you have to go stat based.
  #57  
Old 11-11-2011, 05:32 AM
Quilp Quilp is offline
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Some friendly advice from a warrior that I believe is good for any class:
1) Experience trumps gold. The faster you level the faster you will have access to better gear. An added bonus is that the gold reward for quests and guard duty will also increase faster. And you will rise in the HoF as well which is not that important until later on.

2) Have a plan for using Shrooms. I am sure you are aware that an epic you use 15 shrooms to buy at level 50 will not be much use at level 100. If you are going to spend a lot to buy shrooms, then shrooming the shops and buying all the epics that show up makes sense. But make sure you are buying the extra thirst too. If you are on a tight budget then use the shrooms for mounts and thirst to level up.

3) Invest your gold in your stats when you aren't upgrading your gear. Your main stat should get more than any other. For a warrior that is strength. At present it cost me nearly 2.7Million in gold to by 1 strength point. I buy at least two of these every single day. The next stat to increase for all classes is constitution and then luck. As a warrior I put leftover gold into Int and Dex.

4) Fill up your scrapbook as fast as you can. It will help you to level up.

Warriors are no weaker than any other class. This has been said by many top players already.
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  #58  
Old 11-11-2011, 10:23 AM
Cregan Cregan is offline
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Firstly, I find it odd that no one here is adressing my post. I have made a clear overview of what happens in the arena, wich clearly shows that the balance of power is not equally divided.

Secondly, my opinion is that going for gold makes you very strong for your level. The point is that you will level MUCH slower and will be weaker than someone who played the same time but went for xp.

Going for xp you
- get better items, wich compensate for not buying as much stats
- get more gold per quest
- get more stat bonusses from levelling
- clear dungeons faster

Thirdly, warriors having to keep up two stats is not correct (i believe). A mage with low con is an easy target for a warrior of the same level. ALL classes need a bit of con to be able to last longer than 2 rounds in the arena.
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  #59  
Old 11-11-2011, 10:51 AM
Darstard Darstard is offline
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Sorry, Cregan - I'd managed to jump over your post. I've read it now. Unless I'd miss another post of yours, you state the relative value of stats based on your opponent's class, and the only oddity was that for mages Con was only 1.75 times as valuable as STR vs mages when the other ratios were 2 times. I don't see that as necessarily meaning that the balance of power is not equally divided. It doesn't show, for example, that mages have a clear advantage over everyone, just that warriors can expect a single build to do all.

I wholeheartedly agree with your point about going for XP vs gold over time, that's my experience as well. Other players have found other ways to make their warriors suit their playing style though, and I'm cool with that.
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  #60  
Old 11-11-2011, 10:54 AM
Charista Charista is offline
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I actually do believe that below Level 20, Warriors are actually weak. I think they are designed to be balanced for 25% Shields, and if they don't have one, they lack a defense they are balanced to have. That only lasts a couple days, so it's not worth doing anything about. There is so much chaos due to missing and deficient equipment in the first 15 levels, it's not going to affect everyone.
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