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  #11  
Old 04-13-2010, 01:58 AM
cc0430 cc0430 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Six View Post
I like luck a lot. I go Con > Luck > Int myself.
very smart mage
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  #12  
Old 04-13-2010, 01:59 AM
cc0430 cc0430 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanodie View Post
The issue with Itzme's point is that there is a point where increasing your luck will benefit in higher damage per round on average than increasing your strength will. You have to find a balance that you like.

If you have really high damage with no crit, you will lost battles to people who get crits when they need them, and you'll have no chance for that to happen to you as well.
If you have low damage and really high crit, you'll crit like a little girl because you hit like a little girl.

If you want the highest average damage per hit, you need to balance both of the stats.
good job
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  #13  
Old 04-14-2010, 09:15 PM
Astral Astral is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itzme77 View Post
Luck would be a great asset if a crit hit does more then double dmg though.
my weapon dmg is 858-2134...and I just did this:

"You had 2784 hit points and your opponent 8448 when combat started.
After 5 rounds, you had 386 life and your opponent -9509."

o.O

I think crits do more than double dmg...cuz I crit for OVER 9000!
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  #14  
Old 04-14-2010, 09:21 PM
FluffCake FluffCake is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astral View Post
my weapon dmg is 858-2134...and I just did this:

"You had 2784 hit points and your opponent 8448 when combat started.
After 5 rounds, you had 386 life and your opponent -9509."

o.O

I think crits do more than double dmg...cuz I crit for OVER 9000!
Not quite. Well kind of.
Each round of combat your damage goes up. So by the time you did that, you're already doing a lot more than you normally would when you start.

Although that's a topic unrelated to luck really.


I have noticed quite a few people lately that increase their luck quite a bit and they are sitting pretty at rather high critical rates. High compared to the average person of course.
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  #15  
Old 04-22-2010, 04:32 AM
Scrapps Scrapps is offline
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I'm going to take a stab at this from the perspective of a warrior, using my own stats as a base.

At level 22, I'm sitting at 333 Strength and a weapon that deals ~40 damage. Given that damage is (Weapon Damage * ((1+Strength)/10)), you can say I output ~1336 damage. Each point of Strength here is giving me ~4 damage.

On a similar note, I'm sitting at 345 Luck. Given that crit chance is (Luck * 5 / Enemy Level * 2), you can say I crit 39.204545% of the time. Each point of Luck here is giving me about .113636% crit.

Given that in a normal fight, not counting the increasing damage per round, including a standard 25% block chance (say I'm fighting another warrior, as that's what I'm most familiar with) you can see that:

1336 * .75 = 1002 average damage after blocks
2672 * .75 = 2004 average crit damage after blocks
(2004 * .39204545) + (1002 * .60795454) = 1394.8295 average damage

In a hypothetical where my Strength was 100 higher, I would instead output:
(2604 * .39204545) + (1302 * .60795454) = 1812.4432 average damage
4.1761 actual damage gained per Strength.

In a hypothetical where my Luck was 95 higher, I would instead output:
(2004 * .50) + (1002 * .50) = 1503 average damage
1.1386 actual damage gained per Luck.

Based on this, you might feel that Luck is a terrible stat, but there are three main reasons why (and I don't really feel like doing the full math at the moment, nor do I likely have access to the formulas used in game) Luck is still a viable stat.

1. Luck relies on chance. Something you already knew, but think of it this way - if 1/4th of the time you're not even connecting with your attacks, and neither is your opponent, a couple well placed crits can make a huge difference! If you crit half the time, and your opponent doesn't, then you're essentially hitting them with 112.5% force, while they're hitting you with only 75% force. While your hits aren't for as much by themselves, the multiplier is fairly high.

2. Gear is the great uniter. Remember in the last example where your hits pack more punch, even if they're a bit weaker? You can round out your character with tons of Strength items, while only needing the bare minimum amount of items to "cap" our your Luck. It's easy to see exactly how much Luck you need, and the rest can go into Strength/Constitution, while your opponent won't likely splash in Luck, and certainly won't be able to cap their stat, ensuring maximum efficiency.

3. This is the most important point by far - Shakes and Fidget has a unique battle system where each round of combat deals more damage than the last one. This point alone makes Luck a fairly formidable stat. For example, in the last fight I was in, me and my opponent, also a warrior, were fairly evenly matched - we had about equal weapons, equal Strength, only she had more Constitution than me (by about 12k HP) and I had a ton more Luck than her (roughly 30% more?)

In the beginning of the fight, she was clearly beating me - we both blocked about evenly, and exchanged hits from time to time. Towards the end of the fight, however, crit really began to shine. When she was hitting me for about 1.5k or 2.5k, I managed to squeak in a 3k and 5k crit, winning me the fight.

Normally, my damage scaled up to about 2.6k per swing at the end of the fight, meaning I was dealing about 2.6 times more damage. If I had put 95 points into Strength, I'd be hitting for about 3375 per non-critical swing. With 95 Luck, roughly 50% of the time I'm hitting 5200 criticals, and in those last couple of swings the extra damage counts more than anything else.

Hopefully this is slightly informative? The conclusion it really shows is that raising Strength is generally better, but the ability to achieve the Luck cap as well as the fact that battle damage increases over time makes the risk of Luck pay off as well.
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  #16  
Old 04-22-2010, 08:27 AM
Fatallity Fatallity is offline
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My theory with luck is, I generally speaking focus purely on Strength/Constitution, however when it gets to the point I can fit about 10 Luck skill ups with the same cost as 1 Strength/Constitution skillup would cost me, it's probaly worth bringing it up a bit. -Shrug-
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  #17  
Old 04-25-2010, 05:49 PM
cc0430 cc0430 is offline
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Quote:
1. Luck relies on chance. Something you already knew, but think of it this way - if 1/4th of the time you're not even connecting with your attacks, and neither is your opponent, a couple well placed crits can make a huge difference! If you crit half the time, and your opponent doesn't, then you're essentially hitting them with 112.5% force, while they're hitting you with only 75% force. While your hits aren't for as much by themselves, the multiplier is fairly high.
I think we need more information before we can do anything with the chance critical strike brings to the table.

we don't know if critical strike is determined after the hit/evade/block calculation is done. If crit shares the same table with normal hit/evade/block, then the value of luck will be truly amazing. The simplest way to test it out is to find some warrior or scout who spot 50% crit rate and have him attack another scout. If all the landed hits are crits, then I guess the calculation of crit is done at the same time of evade/block, which means 50% crit chance will give you 100% chance to crit against a scout, and 66.67% against warrior.
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  #18  
Old 05-23-2010, 10:34 AM
BlueDude2 BlueDude2 is offline
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Well, given that battles that last longer will inevitably have bigger crits, this points to one very big conclusion.

Con rocks.

If you can push into a 15th round with high luck, you'll "accidentally" smash your opponent. This is not possible without high in-game luck or high REAL luck (blocks and evade). Con is the great determinate of survivability.

Whether a character is specced for Con/Dam or Con/Crit, being able to stick around for more rounds is thoroughly crucial to victory.

I think another interesting question to ask about luck is how much luck to be pushing for. Since weapons are ranged, I've noticed that with HiLo range weapons, sometimes you'll crit for garbage. If you hit high, you don't really need to crit even higher, but its great if you do. Does that make it better to have a weapon with a smaller gap so that when you do crit, it's reliably going to make a difference?
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  #19  
Old 05-24-2010, 02:26 AM
BLut Mit BLut Mit is offline
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Thumbs up -- No luck, with luck --

That whole 'normalize' bit is why I have pretty much ignored luck.

I figure when levels take longer to achieve it will pay off more....

But, as often as they change in the beginning, it is rather disappointing when they 'normalize'.
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  #20  
Old 06-06-2010, 04:43 PM
Delvan Delvan is offline
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Default Spreadsheet Time

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...FaG9LQVE&hl=en

I threw together this spreadsheet for figuring out the most cost effective way to increase my damage for my Warrior (Strength vs. Luck). I put it on Google Docs if anyone else would like to use it. The first sheet is protected, just make a duplicate of it for your own character (or download it and use it locally).

If you're a mage or a scout, just swap Strength with Intelligence or Dexterity as appropriate. The HP field is listed for Warriors, Scouts, and Mages respectively.

The green boxes are those fields you type in manually. Input costs are in silver pieces (5g 12s would be entered as 512). The % increase per gold spent tells you which is the more cost effective method for increasing your damage, for your current level, and assuming you're attacking someone of your own level. You'll note that all that matters for the cost effectiveness is your level, your Strength, and the cost to upgrade Strength and Luck. The rest of the input fields are just for your own benefit if you'd like to see the final numbers.

There is also a "Target" level box. This will add your crit chance against a target of that level, as well as give you the cost effectiveness of Strength vs. Luck against a target of that level on the far right side.

You can ignore everything below line 22. I was using that in the hopes I could regress the formula for the cost for a given stat increase.
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