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  #41  
Old 07-18-2010, 05:56 PM
ScreaminMime ScreaminMime is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monopz View Post
Yeah that is why having a guild with maximum exp+gold+griffin+10 beers a day is the fastest way to level by far.
Shoot, I forgot about being able to buy beer!
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  #42  
Old 07-18-2010, 06:15 PM
BlueDude2 BlueDude2 is offline
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For an average of 65 mushrooms a day + one-time guild contributions you, too, can experience 600 relative thirst at +100% exp and +100% gold!

In addition, if you have this advantage, your guild will probably be winning, which is basically up to two more 'long quests' worth of experience per day! Join a strong guild, today!
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  #43  
Old 07-18-2010, 07:42 PM
Bullbound Bullbound is offline
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65? Ten on thirst + 1 per day for the dragon mount is only 11 mushrooms per day. But yeah, that 100% bonus is really helpful and nice.
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  #44  
Old 07-18-2010, 10:09 PM
BlueDude2 BlueDude2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueDude2 View Post
For an average of 65 mushrooms a day + one-time guild contributions you, too, can experience 600 relative thirst at +100% exp and +100% gold!

In addition, if you have this advantage, your guild will probably be winning, which is basically up to two more 'long quests' worth of experience per day! Join a strong guild, today!

Oops. Meant to say, 165 mushrooms a week. XD. math is so fuzzy.
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  #45  
Old 08-23-2011, 02:46 AM
zarka zarka is offline
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I have been collecting some data for a while now (off and on, not at every level, but randomly) and have found some interesting trends. First, it is beginning to look like both gold and experience awarded during quests goes up by level according to a power law, but the gold definitely increases faster than the experience. See the level effect on this graph I've attached, [deleted incorrect graph which I uploaded in the next post below] in which I have neutralized the bonuses from guild and mount to show the $/minute and XP/minute you are rewarded. From this it is easy to calculate the value of a mount in actual returns you will receive (assuming an "average" quest split half gold and half experience). If you choose experience over gold, or vice versa, your reward will accordingly be higher in gold or experience, but even if you choose the minimal gold in each quest, your mount more than pays for itself, usually in less than a day. I didn't take data until level 16, so am not sure about the very low levels, but according to the regression, it appears the cow break-even point is about level 6, the horse becomes worth having after level 8, and the tiger after you achieve level 9. I am not calculating the dragon because it is purely mushrooms, so has no equivalent cost in either gold or experience, but is a personal decision to spend real money.

If you look at the real data, you can see that there is a fair amount of randomness, but there is clearly a trend of increasing gold/XP rewarded as you level up. I will have to gather more data to be sure, but the exponent for gold is about 3 and a half while the exponent for experience is about 2


PS I want to make something clearer: the first graph I posted above is merely plotting the line/axis intercepts, not the actual maxima or minima offered in quests. You should halve these numbers to get a "typical" quest return, as I did to calculate the mount value. I have never seen a pure gold or experience quest and they probably don't exist. It may be more illustrative for me to plot the typical maximum and minimum gold and XP offered, but will be for another day if people show interest. For now you can just look at the last graph and see it spans about the middle third of each trend line.

I'm embarrassed. I didn't normalize for mount properly in that last post. Here is the corrected graph.


Typically a quest will net you anywhere from 20-80% of the number shown here for gold and the balance (80-20%) in XP. Most quests end up between 97% and 103% of the sum of these %values, but now and then there will be quests that are 5% over or under the line.

Based on the new regressions, I'd say
cow is worth it at level 6
horse is worth buying at level 7 and
cat is worth buying at level 8
Again, I didn't take data until level 16, but it's pretty clear the mounts are not worth it at the very beginning, and it's a huge benefit to use the cat after level ten, if you have a mushroom.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg NormLevelEffect.JPG (46.1 KB, 157 views)
File Type: jpg MountValue.JPG (28.5 KB, 199 views)
File Type: jpg GXPmin.JPG (41.3 KB, 206 views)
File Type: jpg NormLevelEffect.JPG (49.7 KB, 65 views)
File Type: jpg MountValue.JPG (33.8 KB, 65 views)

Last edited by Bullbound; 08-23-2011 at 08:19 AM. Reason: Please do not double post. Use the "Edit" button please.
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  #46  
Old 08-23-2011, 08:27 AM
Bullbound Bullbound is offline
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It looks like you put a lot of work into this, and it does show that every mount is better than the cheaper one. The reason your gold rises so fast, is because the cost of stats and gear rises so fast. Going to do the same for the mushroom mounts?
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  #47  
Old 08-23-2011, 08:35 AM
iTZKooPA iTZKooPA is offline
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Wow, a member after my own heart. Everything in life deserves a graph. Superb post.
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  #48  
Old 08-23-2011, 08:23 PM
Charista Charista is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zarka View Post
Typically a quest will net you anywhere from 20-80% of the number shown here for gold and the balance (80-20%) in XP. Most quests end up between 97% and 103% of the sum of these %values, but now and then there will be quests that are 5% over or under the line.
And this is something that I can help you with. Nice work, BTW.

As part of testing for someone else's idea, I had reason to record all of my available tests over the last three days. You can find that data in "Quest testing.rar.doc" [Remove .doc, decompress to .xls. I had to cut out a bunch of data because even compressed it was still too large for the forum file size limits. That means it will not reproduce "Quest Weightings.jpg" exactly.] In that file you will find I record the duration (in segments) and the exp and gold rewards of every quest that is offered (not every quest I take). I exclude quests with equipment rewards and the Red special quests, because both of those are aberrant. I find the average of all those quests, and then create a weighted average, by taking the normalized quest rewards of Exp and Gold and add them together. You cna find that the result is a non-nromalized about 1.75-2.25.

It isn't exact, because I leveled up in there some place and my rewards increased. Another file includes the leveling point, so I have that info but I'm not giving you the whole file at this point.

So, that normalizes to 0.875-1.125. Basically, what it appears is that the system generates a quest, and then adds or subtracts up to 12.5%. That leads to the question: is it a linear distribution?

That's why I Binned the results. (I didn't want to force people to use an Add-on, so I didn't use the Histogram feature.) I Graphed the bins, and you can see that result in "Quest weightings.jpg". (just in case you don't have a spreadsheet, at least you can see the results.) Obviously, the modifier isn't linear. It's been too long for me to remember what that particular curve is called. Doesn't matter: it's not linear and slightly negative.

Further, you can see the range of rewards. Exp minimum reward is 20% of the maximum reward. I have done this before, and found that it was 25%, so that min:max relationship seems to drift with level very, very slowly.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Quest Weightings.JPG (36.0 KB, 15 views)
Attached Files
File Type: doc Quest testing.rar.doc (45.9 KB, 4 views)

Last edited by Charista; 08-23-2011 at 08:52 PM.
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  #49  
Old 08-23-2011, 10:30 PM
zarka zarka is offline
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I combined your data and my data to show the same distribution (it makes more sense to me to normalize to 1 rather than 2, sorry), which is beginning to look like a normal gaussian random distribution, but may need more points. I suspect the reason we need more data points to see if it's random is there are probably many different factors that are randomized to some degree and all added up or multiplied to present you with some variety. You have over 440 data points and I have more than 80, so you'd think that would be enough to show if it's random, and it does seem to be shaping up that way.

I don't find this question to be as interesting as the amount of gold and experience points that are awarded changing to such a degree. From your data, it is clear that by level 279 you get more gold than experience points in actual numbers, which is just the opposite for lower levels.

If you give me your mount and your guild experience and gold bonuses that were in effect during this period of time, I'd much appreciate it. I'll add your data to my level extrapolation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullbound View Post
Going to do the same for the mushroom mounts?
No point. The dragon is 67% better than the cat, easily calculated, but the gain is in a completely different currency than what you paid (gold and XP instead of Fungi). Since others have already posted with a clear analysis of the odds that the payoff for dragons is much less (pays back about 10 mushrooms on a random basis over the life of the mount, so you lose 60% or more of what you spend) than the cost in mushrooms, it is already clear that only people who wish to spend a lot of actual money to play the game and level up and buy awesome gear very quickly should get the dragons.

The rest of us who play for fun will soon tire of it and go back to real world hobbies of another sort.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg GXPDistributionParity.JPG (40.8 KB, 44 views)

Last edited by Bullbound; 08-24-2011 at 05:47 AM. Reason: Please do not double post. Please use the Edit button instead. Thank you.
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  #50  
Old 08-24-2011, 05:52 AM
Bullbound Bullbound is offline
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zarka, there is the 1 mushroom mount, and while you lose some of the mushrooms, you are gaining a large amount of gold and experience. The reason to include them on your graph, would be to illustrate if and how much more is actually gained due to the randomization factors that could make it higher or lower based on the mount. When looking at the graph labeled "Mount Value by Level," I noticed the slope is not consistent nor does it seem to maintain the same ratio as the decreased times. It could be, that a 50% mount gives a greater gold and experience benefit than 5 times the 10% mount.
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