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  #41  
Old 06-14-2012, 01:52 AM
GeorgeKen GeorgeKen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobo baggins View Post
So personally I don't think the system is broke i think it is doing exactly what it is suppose to be doing were if a guild gets so far ahead of those under them they can't attack them and lets them find a way to catch up in this case they gain exp from wars were the one so far ahead can't.

(again this is my opinion and not the view of anyone else)
I would agree with your statement, and if this applied to all servers, i wouldn't mind for the current system. What i mean by that is simple: UK server 1 is pretty much dead without competition. I fail to see how some people in here who come from UK server claim otherwise, when the second guild of the server is our academy, consisted of people who want to join the main guild (low levels, or partially inactive old members of the main guild who decided to chill out and log whenever they have time instead of everyday).

As I said before, when me and 2-3 of our highest players can wipe out the entire academy which is ranked in no.2 in highscore (and that means that 3-4 of us can beat any guild in the server since we can beat the second strongest), I consider this server dead.

Some agree with the above statement, some don't and i respect that. But i feel that this is the case, so in order to keep my interest in the game i decided to compete with other servers in other countries as well.

The current system gives us serious disadvantage, which is good for the lower players of our server as you claim, but it gives us an unfair disadvantage against US, DE servers etc. Nonetheless, i am pretty sure your servers' top guilds as well have to lose battles etc in order to keep the difference from the second guild. And even if they dont now, very soon they will be forced to due to the flaw of the battle system. (if they are no.1 it means they can beat the rest of the guilds. Beating them daily, it wont take more than 1-2 weeks to reach the 3.000 difference). And i wonder if that is how peeps want this game to be played.

What really frustrates me is that i see people who got rejected to our guild come here and pretend to be new gamers:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Retribution View Post
Although I am fairly new to the game, I have heard rumors about previous guilds like Lord of the Rings, Urlonia, Chain Gang and RDV Syndicate being entirely wiped out with their best players convinced into joining the top two guilds.
who "heard rumours" that we convinced other guilds to join us like we brainwashed them and forced them to slavery or something, and they state things like this just to get their revenge on us.

Seeing though that iTZKooPA likes the statement this member did about us "being like Wallmart", I suppose he approves this opinion as well. My main purpose of this post is to protect all the no.1 guilds of any server in this game from losing players, (and that would include mine as well of course), but i guess it is our fault that the strongest people join the top guilds and not because the game has flaws.

Apparently we are the root of all evil and the servers (especially the UK one) are running smoothly. Everything is ok and all servers are fully active. The fact that the second guild of our server is our academy means that we have gathered all the strong people, not that there are less than 200 people who are really active in the server. 50 of the active are on our guild the rest 150 are spread out in the top 10 guilds. Whoever disagrees with that, we put a little "test" to see the activity of the server in UK. Player named "Henk" was till recently active and playing in our guild. He decided 3 weeks ago to stop playing, and ever since he hasn't got even 1 quest completed.

When he stopped, he was ranked 27. Three weeks later, he is ranked 30. That is what the activity of the server is for those who say that "Baldur is wrong about the activity". That is the status of the server.

(and we are not evil corporations who want to globalize the world as some want to make us look, on the contrary we want to have competition because competition in this game is what makes you be active and progress so that you dont get overrun by enemies.)

Last edited by GeorgeKen; 06-14-2012 at 02:27 AM.
  #42  
Old 06-14-2012, 06:27 AM
polopoloyuuu polopoloyuuu is offline
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It sounds like you want a challenge, and I have one that you should consider (and which you already had mentioned).

If you are really in charge of your guild, you will get them all to disarm when you are attacked by the academy guild of yours. This will be a challenge, but if you can do it, you will get a week's worth of honor from attacks.

Keep track of who is competent in your guild when you try this, and demote/ask to sit your member's accounts who can't follow a simple order.
  #43  
Old 06-14-2012, 07:52 AM
Bullbound Bullbound is offline
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GeorgeKen, I notice how you have gotten very demanding and defensive about several points, but there is one statement you have continuously either ignored or refuse to address. If S&F is not popular in the UK, why should the game be rewritten to entertain a single market that is dying, when it is popular in many other places with a greater demand? The Germans have a need for over 20 servers due to folks playing it there, the Polish have a need for 16 servers, the Czech have a need for 13 servers, North America has a need for 9 servers, etc. Your complaint is that there are not enough players, and as such the game needs to be reworked. Instead of reworking the game, why not try an active server and get that competition back? Just because a game is dying in one place, does not mean it needs to be reworked. All it means, is that the game is dying.
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  #44  
Old 06-14-2012, 08:24 AM
GeorgeKen GeorgeKen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polopoloyuuu View Post
It sounds like you want a challenge, and I have one that you should consider (and which you already had mentioned).

If you are really in charge of your guild, you will get them all to disarm when you are attacked by the academy guild of yours. This will be a challenge, but if you can do it, you will get a week's worth of honor from attacks.

Keep track of who is competent in your guild when you try this, and demote/ask to sit your member's accounts who can't follow a simple order.
that is what we are currently doing more or less, by not participating in some attacks and thus losing on purpose some guild wars in order to be able to continue battling. that is what i am trying to change here, because i think that this is a flaw of the battle system, we shouldnt have to organize 50 people to do this kind of things just in order to participate and enjoy a part of the game....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullbound View Post
GeorgeKen, I notice how you have gotten very demanding and defensive about several points, but there is one statement you have continuously either ignored or refuse to address. If S&F is not popular in the UK, why should the game be rewritten to entertain a single market that is dying, when it is popular in many other places with a greater demand? The Germans have a need for over 20 servers due to folks playing it there, the Polish have a need for 16 servers, the Czech have a need for 13 servers, North America has a need for 9 servers, etc. Your complaint is that there are not enough players, and as such the game needs to be reworked. Instead of reworking the game, why not try an active server and get that competition back? Just because a game is dying in one place, does not mean it needs to be reworked. All it means, is that the game is dying.
I think i understand what you say, if not, plz ignore what i say and correct me. But you are telling me that because UK servers are low on players and activity, Playa Games doesnt care for the people who are active there because we are too few, compared to the US - DE etc servers who dont complain and have more players? That doesnt sound very right... And in addition to that, i would like to say that just because people dont log in to the forums to complain about it, doesnt mean they are happy. Most people when they are unhappy with an aspect of a game, they quit it, they dont bother logging in the forums and be the "whiner" as i have come to be apparently....

What i try to point out is that no matter what the activity of a server is, the guild battles system has a major flaw: A guild has to organize 50 people to lose a war every 3 days, otherwise they will be unable to participate in a guild war possibly for 1-2-3 weeks? (time varies based on how strong the second guild etc i suppose). We for example, this time failed to lose against the second strongest guild of the server (am i the only one who sees the irony in this sentence??), we were deprived from guild wars (a major part of the game) for 3 weeks.

The whole point of me referring to the activity of the server is not to change the marketing policy of UK servers, that is up to Playa to decide. My point about the activity in the first place was to point out that this problem occurred to our server first (because of the low activity), but it will become a problem for the rest of the servers as well (if not already).

Even if i became mad and decided to kick half of my guild out just to "raise" competition (which i would never do of course), then again the strongest guild would once again hit no.1 in highscore list and then this guild would face EXACTLY the same problem we are currently dealing with. That would not solve the issue, that would simply transfer the issue to another guild (if they became stronger than us). But the problem would remain for the new no.1 guild.

In conclusion, the activity of a server has nothing to do with the guild battles, it just makes the problem appear sooner or later depending on how low or high the activity is. As i said before, the only reason i mentioned the problem of the low UK server activity is to point out that it just appeared to us first, and it will happen to your servers as well in the future. But the problem remains there nonetheless...

Last edited by GeorgeKen; 06-14-2012 at 08:38 AM.
  #45  
Old 06-14-2012, 08:58 AM
bobo baggins's Avatar
bobo baggins bobo baggins is offline
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I have seen a few solutions from others that dont have to have Playa rewrite the rules for one guild on all the servers. There is one thing you said that can fix your problem sort of you said the #2 ranked guild is your academy guild why not more your lower leveled players and some higher level one into the academy guild to the point that they can beat you till they are almost #1 then move everyone back this way some are getting exp mainly your lower lrvrl players that you want stronger anyhow to help more in dungeon raids and it gives some interest back to both guilds as you get to talk to players you dont normally get to talk to help in raids in the academy guild so bonuses are closer to what the main guild has etc.

Another solution is which can also be used during the above is send players out to some of the mid ranked guilds and help with raids. (I am not a fan of this idea myself) but for those guilds that would love to have the help it also gives your players something to do.

My point is along with Bullbound's that why write code for one server that has a low activity count when what I beleive they have it step up to make it so the top guild can't run away with the top spot by putting the cap in there in the first place.

Also Playa just raised the cap from 950 to 3000 with no other guilds on any of the servers for this forum (by the way UK does have its own forum and this subject might liven it up a little bit imo) having the same problem I say this is an isolated problem. I don't see them doing anything anytime soon nor should they also in my opinion even if it was a problem on all the servers because it just makes it that much harder for the other guilds to catch up.

Just thought of this you want a way to earn exp from wars ok lets try this if the guild under you is 3000+ honor under you then it costs 3 times the gold which I know is not much when you get to the higher levels and you only get 1/3 the exp you normally would get. oh and your gain no honor in fact you lose 10 points for the war. You still get to war and you still get exp you just don't get to have the full benefits as if you were within the 3000 range.

That is the only change I see that would be fair and another honor cap increase I think would make it impossible for any guild to truly catch up to the top spot.
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  #46  
Old 06-14-2012, 09:08 AM
GeorgeKen GeorgeKen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobo baggins View Post
Just thought of this you want a way to earn exp from wars ok lets try this if the guild under you is 3000+ honor under you then it costs 3 times the gold which I know is not much when you get to the higher levels and you only get 1/3 the exp you normally would get. oh and your gain no honor in fact you lose 10 points for the war. You still get to war and you still get exp you just don't get to have the full benefits as if you were within the 3000 range.
that is a brilliant idea too. Any solution would be good to this problem and i think most people would be fine with it. But a solution must be found nonetheless... But not being able to do anything for three weeks is not good either...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobo baggins View Post
Another solution is which can also be used during the above is send players out to some of the mid ranked guilds and help with raids. (I am not a fan of this idea myself) but for those guilds that would love to have the help it also gives your players something to do.
we already do that by helping 2-3 guilds to progress faster, but once again the problem remains, no matter what we do (or any guild who is no.1 in the highscore list), we still have to face the same problem. Even though we help these guilds, they might be getting stronger, but there is always a guild who is stronger than the rest. It is not a problem of my guild for that matter. We just happen to be the strongest. If we weren't, some other guild would be no.1. And they would still face the same problem.

But i agree with your suggestion above, that would fix the problem without being unfair either to the strong, or to the weak guilds... Something needs to be done though....
  #47  
Old 06-14-2012, 10:19 AM
Retribution Retribution is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeKen View Post
First of all spiny norman i answered 2 posts above to your statement of "braking" our guild, we dont want to split in two just because the other guilds are participated of casual and mediocre players. I want to play with my in-game mates, not split the group in half because the battle system has flaws.
These "mates" of yours? Are you speaking of all the members of the server that you have collected from the other guilds? You make "mates" fast! I resent your comment regarding casual and mediocre players, also. The reason many players are casual is because all of the competition has been leeched out of the game by the top two guilds. You are complaining about the fact that the game has slowed down for your guild but those lower guilds have a right to complain also about the fact that they are basically fighting a loosing battle.You sound like the neighborhood bully whining about the other kids in the neighborhood not wanting to play with you.
  #48  
Old 06-14-2012, 10:56 AM
spiny norman spiny norman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeKen View Post

we were deprived from guild wars (a major part of the game) for 3 weeks.
How much are guild wars part of the "game" if the outcome is a foregone conclusion? It is as much a game as shooting fish in a barrel. What makes it a game is having doubt over who will win. Otherwise it's just a massacre. And as I mentioned before, the only advantage other than watching the lower guild get stomped is that you would gain 5 minutes worth of fame, probably a small fraction of your overall total.

Quote:
The whole point of me referring to the activity of the server is not to change the marketing policy of UK servers, that is up to Playa to decide. My point about the activity in the first place was to point out that this problem occurred to our server first (because of the low activity), but it will become a problem for the rest of the servers as well (if not already).
That depends on how much attrition there is and how much the top players on other servers value position vs. competition. You obviously value position above all else. Others may take a different path.

Quote:
Even if i became mad and decided to kick half of my guild out just to "raise" competition (which i would never do of course), then again the strongest guild would once again hit no.1 in highscore list and then this guild would face EXACTLY the same problem we are currently dealing with. That would not solve the issue, that would simply transfer the issue to another guild (if they became stronger than us). But the problem would remain for the new no.1 guild.
You suggest that once a guild becomes the top guild that it is impossible for another guild to catch them. Somehow, I doubt that this is the case. Attrition in the top guild and more active training by the lower guilds will allow this. People getting bored and quitting is part of the game. I don't expect to be playing S&F on my deathbed. If you've been at if for several years, you've had a good run. If the game is no longer interesting to you, find a new game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeKen View Post
I would agree with your statement, and if this applied to all servers, i wouldn't mind for the current system. What i mean by that is simple: UK server 1 is pretty much dead without competition. I fail to see how some people in here who come from UK server claim otherwise, when the second guild of the server is our academy, consisted of people who want to join the main guild (low levels, or partially inactive old members of the main guild who decided to chill out and log whenever they have time instead of everyday).

As I said before, when me and 2-3 of our highest players can wipe out the entire academy which is ranked in no.2 in highscore (and that means that 3-4 of us can beat any guild in the server since we can beat the second strongest), I consider this server dead.
Just because the dinosaurs are extinct doesn't mean that life has ceased on planet earth. You talk a lot about mediocre and casual players. I'm right now #2741 on US server 1, and consider myself neither mediocre nor casual. It's just that I've been playing for only 2 months.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobo baggins
Just thought of this you want a way to earn exp from wars ok lets try this if the guild under you is 3000+ honor under you then it costs 3 times the gold which I know is not much when you get to the higher levels and you only get 1/3 the exp you normally would get. oh and your gain no honor in fact you lose 10 points for the war. You still get to war and you still get exp you just don't get to have the full benefits as if you were within the 3000 range.
I like this idea. There is nothing honorable about attacking a guild 3000 points below you, so you should lose honor.

Last edited by spiny norman; 06-14-2012 at 11:17 AM.
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  #49  
Old 06-14-2012, 08:56 PM
Darstard Darstard is offline
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I'll throw in my 2 cents here:
1) The Guild War system is fine, and is working as intended. It's annoying for #1 guilds, yes, but good for everyone else.
2) What your guild is REALLY missing is not Guild Wars, but something to do together as a guild and likely a bunch of stuff to do individually as well.

By the time a Guild climbs to #1 on a mature server, the players will be defeating individual dungeons only once every few months, and the Guild dungeons are at an equally slow pace. Your guild had grown and gelled over countless Guild Wars and that TEAM ACTIVITY once it's gone make the team seem less important. Pulling out the 3000 cap so you can continue launching wars will help a little, I agree, but ONLY a little. What the game REALLY needs is new content. New challenges for individuals and guilds. There are a few threads in the Suggestion forum about this - perhaps a Resurrection is due? Or perhaps some advance notice about what Playa is actually cooking up in the S&F dev kitchen??
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  #50  
Old 10-10-2012, 03:17 PM
GeorgeKen GeorgeKen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darstard View Post
I'll throw in my 2 cents here:
1) The Guild War system is fine, and is working as intended. It's annoying for #1 guilds, yes, but good for everyone else.
2) What your guild is REALLY missing is not Guild Wars, but something to do together as a guild and likely a bunch of stuff to do individually as well.
I was wondering Darstard.... Do you insist on these comments you made back then, considering your current status...? Was this battle system with the flaws it has worth the time of moving to a whole new guild in order to avoid battle - lock? What would happen if you didnt actually have the chance as a guild to move to another guild and start all over from scratch? How many people would still be playing in your guild without being able to do battles with other guilds?


(I ask these questions in a good heart towards you, I am merely critisizing the battle system as it is, pointing the obvious as to why this battle system has flaws..)
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