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  #11  
Old 09-20-2011, 08:04 PM
lspiderl lspiderl is offline
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thanks for your oppinions guys just trying to get a good idea of where balance lies


at what ratio does primary stat trump armor boost and vice versa
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  #12  
Old 09-22-2011, 12:35 AM
lspiderl lspiderl is offline
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lol and problem solved jsut found one thats 411 armor 115 dex lol
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  #13  
Old 04-24-2013, 09:12 PM
spiny norman spiny norman is offline
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so, to bump this thread:

I just got a new belt for barbarian Bert. here's the choice:

Old belt: 4340 armor, +373 to Str, con, luck
new belt: 2830 to armor, +422 to str, con, luck.

so the tradeoff is 49 pts to str, con, luck vs 1510 to armor.

some additional data: I'm at level 285 with armor 10542 (without either belt). I'm battling B.O. Wolf, level 336. That gives me a 44% damage reduction with the old belt and a 40% damage reduction with the new one. Or stated another way, with the old belt I will take 56% of the "no armor" damage, while with the new that will rise to 60%, a pretty significant 7.1% increase.

My average damage is 503,000 with the old belt and 506,000 with the new one.
My hit points are 9.19 million with the old belt and 9.26 million with the new one.
My critical hit for level 336 is 43.8% with the old belt and 44.9% with the new one.

So this is my analysis: the armor bonus on the old belt means I will take 56% damage, which will rise to 60% damage if I switch belts. This is a 7.1% increase in damage I will take per hit. The hit point increase on the new belt, however, will allow me to live longer, but the difference is only .76%. Similarly, I will do more damage with the new belt, but the difference is, again, small: factoring in both damage and luck, 723 with the old belt and 733 with the new one, an increase of only about 1.4%.

So it seems to me the better stats on the new belt are worth only 2% overall, combined damage and hit points, while if I give up the armor bonus on the old belt I will take 7% more damage. So the old belt is better.

Anyone see a problem with this analysis?

Last edited by spiny norman; 04-24-2013 at 09:15 PM.
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  #14  
Old 04-25-2013, 02:51 AM
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bobo baggins bobo baggins is offline
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No I see no issue with what you said but I have found being able to do more damage and having more HP more then offsets that small reduction in armor. I have always taken the better stat item over better armor ones and have done better every time.

In short I would go for better stats I'm sure others will tell you armor try using both for a couple of days not only in dungeons but guild wars and arena and then decide what works best for you.
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  #15  
Old 04-25-2013, 08:01 AM
spiny norman spiny norman is offline
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it's a belt for Barbarian Bert, so I can only use it in tower battles. They are so variable: sometimes the 4 of us do 30% damage on the boss, sometimes 90%. Given the huge standard deviation, I doubt that a handful of observations would be of much benefit. Which is why I resorted to math.
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  #16  
Old 04-25-2013, 09:29 AM
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bobo baggins bobo baggins is offline
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Ok 2 things I don't know if you got the new belt from toilet drop or clearing tower level. You might ask why I say this from my observation from tower rewards they never give you a lesser item then lower tower levels.( Yes luck epics are junk but luck items and all stat items improve with each tower level cleared as well)

That being said if both from tower drop I say take the new one if not you can go either way you have to decide if better armor or more damage, HP, and luck (better chance at criticals ) are what you want.

( For me I always take the stat bonus over armor)
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Last edited by bobo baggins; 04-25-2013 at 09:31 AM.
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  #17  
Old 04-25-2013, 11:08 AM
Quilp Quilp is offline
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When you figure out armor values make sure to take enemies into consideration. What you need to do is get the total armor (of all items) of your companion for each item you can equip and divide that by the level of the tower boss. Just considering the armor of one item is not going to help.

I am with bobo; as I almost always take the stats over armor unless the armor is ridiculously low on the higher stat item.
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  #18  
Old 04-25-2013, 04:59 PM
spiny norman spiny norman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobo baggins View Post
That being said if both from tower drop I say take the new one if not you can go either way you have to decide if better armor or more damage, HP, and luck (better chance at criticals ) are what you want.

( For me I always take the stat bonus over armor)
That's why I did the calculations above. I doubt you'd take a new item that gives 1 extra point to stats if it dropped your armor 1000. So there must be some level where armor and stats balance. This one is 1510 armor, 49 stats. According to my calculations, the armor bonus should be much better than the stat bonus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quilp View Post
When you figure out armor values make sure to take enemies into consideration. What you need to do is get the total armor (of all items) of your companion for each item you can equip and divide that by the level of the tower boss. Just considering the armor of one item is not going to help.

I am with bobo; as I almost always take the stats over armor unless the armor is ridiculously low on the higher stat item.
If you read my post above, that's what I did. The new belt had armor 1510 lower than than the old one. I calculated that I would take 56% baseline (no armor) damage with the old belt against my current level 336 tower opponent and 60% damage with the new belt, which comes out to 7% more damage. The stat bonuses only increased my hit points by less than 1% and the damage I cause my opponent by less than 2%, so the tradeoff seems to favor the armor.

The decision will be much different for scouts and mages. Scouts get a max of only 25% damage reduction and mages only 10%. I am a mage, and with my current armor I get a 9% damage reduction against a level 336 opponent. If I dropped the armor on my highest level item (737) to that of my lowest level item (411) I would have 8% damage reduction. Meaning the damage I would take would increase from 91 to 92, which is only about 1%. So it's hard to imagine a mage item where the armor bonus would outweigh even a 25 point stat bonus
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  #19  
Old 01-19-2015, 09:48 PM
spiny norman spiny norman is offline
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The same issue has just popped up with my brother Groog.

Barbarian Bert just won new gloves, 518 to str/con/luck, but only 2924 armor. The old gloves have only 403 to str/con/luck, but have 4970 armor. So the new gloves give 115 extra to stats but at the cost of the loss of a whopping 2056 to armor.

He's battling tower level 90, Respectable Dragon Slayer, level 378

Old gloves: armor 17690, damage reduction 46.8%, damage taken 53.2%
New gloves: armor 15644, damage reduction 41.4%, damage taken 58.6%

That's 10.2% more damage taken with the new gloves.

Old gloves: damage ~828248
New gloves: damage ~837770

That's 1.1% more damage given with the new gloves. Con and luck should help things a bit, but it's hard to believe they can make up for the armor reduction.
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  #20  
Old 01-04-2016, 02:07 AM
Huscarl Huscarl is offline
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IMO it's 100% worth swapping 2000 armor for 345 extra stats.

I realize this reply is a year late lol
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