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  #11  
Old 11-30-2011, 12:58 PM
Bullbound Bullbound is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charista View Post
Clearly someone does *NOT* understand the top 10. This is a non-starter. For the top 4 guilds on Server 1, there is only 1 possible Guild War target. No one is going to join, because if their target signs on, too, the higher level guild can't win Guild Wars, but the lower level guild can, and the higher level guild attacking the joiner can. You're just shooting your own foot off joining this.

You can mess with this down in the low teens and below where guilds have 5 or 6 targets, but it's just not worth anything for the top guilds on any server.
Way to try to piss in someones cereal just because they are trying something you can't take joy in. You know, there are many others that play this game than just you and your guilds. Is this news to you? I think so. As Rizathivax said, there are others that don't fit into your narrow focus of players. Let folks have some fun, instead of trying to be the skunk at a crowded party.
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  #12  
Old 11-30-2011, 07:01 PM
blackhatnot blackhatnot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charista View Post
Clearly someone does *NOT* understand the top 10. This is a non-starter. For the top 4 guilds on Server 1, there is only 1 possible Guild War target. No one is going to join, because if their target signs on, too, the higher level guild can't win Guild Wars, but the lower level guild can, and the higher level guild attacking the joiner can. You're just shooting your own foot off joining this.

You can mess with this down in the low teens and below where guilds have 5 or 6 targets, but it's just not worth anything for the top guilds on any server.
You know, if you swapped those two paragraphs around and maybe took out the first sentence, this wouldn't sound like somebody has a desperate need of rubbing their "superiority" into people's faces.

I get the feeling that CLEARLY, the founders of F.A.M.E. just want to enjoy the game with other guilds without the need to abandon their own guilds, which they probably started with friends and acquaintances. I'll be honest here, I don't think this is very practical at all, but since this is a game there is no need to base everything off of practicality.
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  #13  
Old 11-30-2011, 08:56 PM
Sam Sam is offline
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so basically all your offering is excatly what the forum provides already? or are you trying to kill off the forums more than they already are?
just few days ago i asked a member on the forum to msg a player ingame and later he got a responce without the use of l.a.m.e. support
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  #14  
Old 11-30-2011, 10:52 PM
Rizathivax Rizathivax is offline
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Ok, let me refine what F.A.M.E is trying to be. I must not have explained it very well or a lot of people are just not reading it all the way through. In the game, you have the players, you can play alone or you can take the next step & join a guild. Most long time players will tell you that you're missing a lot of the game if you don't join a guild.

So is there anything past joining a guild, well some alliances have been formed but normally they fall apart after a short while. Why, well there really are no guide lines for alliances. That is a big part of F.A.M.E. is about, it is the alliance that all guilds can join, large or small. Sort of a NATO or UN for Shakes & Fidget. And just like those organizations it has it's own guide lines for it's members to follow. It adds challenges between members, at both the guild and personal level, so it is something that can be planed for, ideas can be tested out, etc. It also allows for members to grow beyond their guild without be branded a traitor or worse, by moving up to a higher level guild. It also will allow lower level members to find guilds that will accept them, because they will have spaces for them.

You say you had to find someone to get a message to someone who was not on the forum, well in the future people will know where to look. Since most players are not on the forum, we take some of the latest news to them, WITH the link to the whole thread, with the hope that they will use it to see what else is on the forum. Most of them don't know there is anything on the forum for them, so why should they come here. We show them that the forum is where all the hints, news & information is to be had.

If you follow the link to the history of F.A.M.E. in the first post of this thread, you will see how it started & has grown already across five of the seven servers with five guilds on server 4 alone. I'm not saying it's for everyone, but then not everyone joins a guild or the forum either, but they have a choice. Without F.A.M.E. & possibly other organizations like it in the future, there is no choice, nothing beyond the guilds for Shakes & Fidget. Hopefully it will continue to grow & evolve as new ideas are added, but unlike the game itself we won't have to wait for the programmers to release an update or patch, because we will be building it ourselves. I would like to see the day we have server verses server contests run by the players. And all I ask at this moment is why not?

For those of you who do get it & think it is a good idea, feel free to add your thoughts or ask questions, that is how it has gotten to this stage, with the input of the whole forum I have high hopes that the best is yet to come.
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  #15  
Old 11-30-2011, 11:06 PM
Sam Sam is offline
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everything you said is already here on the forums and as to the msg it was to my guild leader as a joke but did happen very quickly and by using the forums
there are subforums for alliances and mergers so thats covered and as to advertising the forums im sure many already do that now i know i do because its boring as heck most days
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Last edited by iTZKooPA; 12-01-2011 at 05:37 AM. Reason: edited for content
  #16  
Old 12-01-2011, 05:43 AM
iTZKooPA iTZKooPA is offline
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As long as the idea stays on topic and nothing untoward comes up it - such as no more guild attacks, which seems highly unlikely given the community and the way the treaty is written - I see no immediate problem with the idea. Riz appears to be attempting to bring some extra organization to server dynamics that the forums can't provide and the game doesn't have a mechanic for.
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  #17  
Old 12-02-2011, 04:31 PM
Charista Charista is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullbound View Post
Way to try to piss in someones cereal just because they are trying something you can't take joy in. You know, there are many others that play this game than just you and your guilds. Is this news to you? I think so. As Rizathivax said, there are others that don't fit into your narrow focus of players. Let folks have some fun, instead of trying to be the skunk at a crowded party.
That is nothing like what I said. I said it can work for guilds wiht multiple targets, but not for guilds that can attack only one target for guild war XP. How you turn that into an emotional argument, I have no clue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackhatnot
You know, if you swapped those two paragraphs around and maybe took out the first sentence, this wouldn't sound like somebody has a desperate need of rubbing their "superiority" into people's faces.
It's my right to sound superior. Free speech and all that. It's not a crime. It doesn't mean that I think myself superior, only that I SOUND superior. But I welcome attempts to prove me inferior.

But there's one difference. I didn't attack his idea as being mentally unsound or any other personal characterization. I explained a feature of the Honor System that prohibits participation by the most powerful guilds that he seems to have overlooked. That's not personal, and it's not superior, it's merely knowledgeable. I launched 90% of Zombunny's attacks from March 2011-Nov 2011, and before that for the Endless. There are few with my insights into the mathematics of the Honor system. That's not bragging, that's just long experience anyone that shared a guild with me can attest to.
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Zombunny: RIP
Time of Death: 17:32 PDT November 14, 2011
It has passed into Myth and Legend.

http://zombunny.guildlaunch.com/index.php?gid=236408
  #18  
Old 12-02-2011, 07:22 PM
Rizathivax Rizathivax is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charista View Post
That is nothing like what I said. I said it can work for guilds wiht multiple targets, but not for guilds that can attack only one target for guild war XP. How you turn that into an emotional argument, I have no clue.



It's my right to sound superior. Free speech and all that. It's not a crime. It doesn't mean that I think myself superior, only that I SOUND superior. But I welcome attempts to prove me inferior.

But there's one difference. I didn't attack his idea as being mentally unsound or any other personal characterization. I explained a feature of the Honor System that prohibits participation by the most powerful guilds that he seems to have overlooked. That's not personal, and it's not superior, it's merely knowledgeable. I launched 90% of Zombunny's attacks from March 2011-Nov 2011, and before that for the Endless. There are few with my insights into the mathematics of the Honor system. That's not bragging, that's just long experience anyone that shared a guild with me can attest to.
I think you are overlooking a few things, one is that F.A.M.E places no limits on attacking anyone (guild or player) who hasn't joined F.A.M.E. Plus unlike your "normal" alliances where allies are not allowed to attack each other, F.A.M.E. has a "challenge" system built in, where battles between member guilds & players schedule "challenge battles" for all the normal reasons (Honor, experience, etc. & I really don't see the top guilds turning down any challenges) but it allows for the guilds to become more organized by trying out new strategies, even things not possible now like "our officers can beat your officers" or even "our officers can take your whole guild". Schedule a battle & let everyone know what the goal is, the people who aren't with the plan will stand out like sore thumbs. You can clean up even a top guild pretty fast by kicking the people who aren't willing to follow directions.

Last edited by Rizathivax; 12-02-2011 at 11:55 PM. Reason: Correcting grammar error
  #19  
Old 12-03-2011, 05:46 PM
Charista Charista is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rizathivax View Post
I think you are overlooking a few things, one is that F.A.M.E places no limits on attacking anyone (guild or player) who hasn't joined F.A.M.E.
Sigh. I guess we'll do this the hard way, because you don't understand.

Snapshot of the top 6 right now.

1 The Endless (TE) 11113
2 The Severed Tongue (ST) 10952
3 Disciples of Beer (DoB) 10061
4 Grape Gang (GG) 9346
5 Threat and Promise (T&P) 8472
6 Adventurer's Inc (AI) 8330

I know from observation that 1 & 2 are swapping places, as are 5 and 6.

Important note: If your guild has 951 or more honor than your victim, you gain no Honor and no XP.

Assume ST joins FAME.

Nothing changes.

Charista, noticing ST join, says to Slambo, hey, join FAME. Trust me, it'll rock. ST can no longer attack DoB.

DoB does as it has been, attacking GG. St can only attack TE, and TE can only attack DoB when in 2nd. They both lose on attack vs each other, usually, so they just keep swapping places in #1, and because they don't win attacks, they don't get War XP. Periodically, TE when in 2nd attacks DoB and gets XP. ST never does.

DoB, however, slowly rises to nearly 950 over GG. Assume DoB is willing to honor dump. DoB honor dumps down to 750 and continues unabated. Nothing changes for DoB, but the lack of War Xp for ST helps them slowly catch up.

Result: ST, by joining, no longer gets War XP, but TE by not joining does. St falls behind and begins to see DoB gain in power over them.

TwoTonTim sees what's going on, and joins FAME. DoB can no longer attack anyone for War XP. GG rises to >950, and since they won't Honor dump, they stall out of range. Now no one that joined is getting War XP. Only TE is, because they didn't join.

_____________________


The point is that your exclusion of attacking other guild members cuts off the higher ranked guild from War XP, and so no one in a single target situation should join. If they miss this, and do join, they will find themselves hamstrung, and will abandon FAME as dysfunctional. It aggravates the already existing honor system issues by putting lower Rank guilds into a situation where they are honor locked where in a normal healthy system they would not be, without providing solutions for the need to Honor Dump.
__________________
Zombunny: RIP
Time of Death: 17:32 PDT November 14, 2011
It has passed into Myth and Legend.

http://zombunny.guildlaunch.com/index.php?gid=236408

Last edited by Charista; 12-03-2011 at 05:49 PM.
  #20  
Old 12-03-2011, 07:37 PM
Rizathivax Rizathivax is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charista View Post
Sigh. I guess we'll do this the hard way, because you don't understand.

The point is that your exclusion of attacking other guild members cuts off the higher ranked guild from War XP, and so no one in a single target situation should join. If they miss this, and do join, they will find themselves hamstrung, and will abandon FAME as dysfunctional. It aggravates the already existing honor system issues by putting lower Rank guilds into a situation where they are honor locked where in a normal healthy system they would not be, without providing solutions for the need to Honor Dump.
I understand where you're coming from, but with the "Challenge" system, members can still battle each other & you aren't really trying to tell me that if member guild "A" Challenges member guild "B" that guild "B" is not going to accept the challenge, if there is even the slightest chance that guild "B" could win? Or if, as it has been said elsewhere, there is nothing else to do?

Although in all truth, I fully expect that by the time F.A.M.E. has grown to that point, that there will be at least one rival organization started to give it competition, because nothing successful ever goes very long without being copied.

I would like to address a question here that has come up on the servers, there will be mainly one guild on each server that all the F.A.M.E member guilds will be allied to such as the Femme Fatales on server 4. The other other member guilds are allied to the Femme Fatales & each other like a hub or a spider web. So all an member has to have in their guild description on server 4 is that they are allied to the Femme Fatales & all the member guild leaders or officers have to do is direct any questions about F.A.M.E. to the F.A.M.E. Agent on the server, currently Rifkin. Later as F.A.M.E. gains recognition, all they will need in their description will be "F.A.M.E Member".

Last edited by Rizathivax; 03-15-2012 at 09:19 PM. Reason: correcting grammar
 

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