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  #1  
Old 06-10-2011, 02:15 PM
brildon brildon is offline
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Default Thirst or Mount

What's more effective for someone who doesnt buy mushrooms.... the 30% mount with rest of mushrooms going towards thirst, or using all mushrooms for the 50% mount?
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  #2  
Old 06-10-2011, 02:25 PM
Charista Charista is offline
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If you play eveyr day, the 50 mount. If you only get 75% of your thirst by missing days or not playing your full daily 100 every day, buy thirst when you have the time.
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  #3  
Old 06-13-2011, 12:01 AM
Jengas Jengas is offline
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I typically go for 50% mount every time. While I'm saving up shrooms for that mount, I might occasionally come across epic items for sale at the shop. If you're between 15-25 shrooms, you can buy it; but if you consume all but 1 shrooms for thirst, you'll rarely get a chance to buy them (not sure if they ever sell epic items for just gold).

Once I have enough for the 50% mount, I get the mount, then I burn every shroom I get from then on to the point the mount expires on thirst, maximizing the mount's potential as a free user. Then I start saving up for the 50% again.

I skip all pots of eternal life unless they don't cost shrooms. Leveling is more important than extra hp.
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  #4  
Old 06-13-2011, 07:11 PM
brildon brildon is offline
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Thanks for the imput Charista and Jengas.... what you said makes a lot of sense to me Jengas, and I think I will follow that aswell. =]
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  #5  
Old 06-14-2011, 08:41 AM
Sir Jaunty Sir Jaunty is offline
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If you were to spend 25 shrooms on the 50% mount versus 24 in the tavern and 1 on the 30% mount, lets check it out.

25 shrooms on the mount will take the small quests from 3.5 to 2.5 minutes. You can get 28.6 of the small quests with the 30% mount versus 40 with the 50% mount. Lets those quests an arbitrary xp number. 10000 (for ease).

That then gets us 286k with the 30% mount.
The 50% mount will get you 400k.

So that's 114k extra per day * 14 = 1.596 million.

Now 24 shrooms on thirst. That's 480 extra thirst. At the 30% mount rates that garners 137.14 extra small quests. Or 1.371 million. A bit less.

Of course the absolute best is to use both at the same time. Then each shroom spent in the tavern gets extra benefit. That 480 thirst now generates 192 quests or 1.92 million xp (on top of the 1.596 you gained from the mount it self). So, while you have the mount, spending shrooms in the tavern is better than waiting and buying a 2nd 50% mount (1.92 versus 1.596).

Ok, I think everything is right, if I missed anything feel free to correct me.
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  #6  
Old 06-14-2011, 02:46 PM
iTZKooPA iTZKooPA is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Jaunty View Post
Of course the absolute best is to use both at the same time. Then each shroom spent in the tavern gets extra benefit. That 480 thirst now generates 192 quests or 1.92 million xp (on top of the 1.596 you gained from the mount it self). So, while you have the mount, spending shrooms in the tavern is better than waiting and buying a 2nd 50% mount (1.92 versus 1.596).
Math wins again. Go math. Nice breakdown.
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  #7  
Old 08-23-2011, 02:04 AM
zarka zarka is offline
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I have been collecting some data for a while now (off and on, not at every level, but randomly) and have found some interesting trends. First, it is beginning to look like both gold and experience awarded during quests goes up by level according to a power law, but the gold definitely increases faster than the experience. See the level effect on this graph I've attached, in which I have neutralized the bonuses from guild and mount to show the $/minute and XP/minute you are rewarded. This is the theoretical max you would receive in a theoretical pure gold or pure experience quest, which don't exist. Most quests will split between gold and experience so that you get 25-75% of your reward in one currency and the balance in the other.

From this it is easy to calculate the value of a mount in actual returns you will receive (assuming an "average" quest split half gold and half experience). If you choose experience over gold, or vice versa, your reward will accordingly be higher in gold or experience, but even if you choose the minimal gold in each quest, your mount more than pays for itself, usually in less than a day. I didn't take data until level 16, so am not sure about the very low levels, but according to the regression, it appears the cow break-even point is about level 6, the horse becomes worth having after level 8, and the tiger after you achieve level 9. I am not calculating the dragon because it is purely mushrooms, so has no equivalent cost in either gold or experience, but is a personal decision to spend real money.

If you look at the real data, you can see that there is a fair amount of randomness, but there is clearly a trend of increasing gold/XP rewarded as you level up. I will have to gather more data to be sure, but the exponent for gold is about 3 and a half while the exponent for experience is about 2
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  #8  
Old 09-01-2011, 10:30 AM
BMWGuinness BMWGuinness is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charista View Post
If you play eveyr day, the 50 mount. If you only get 75% of your thirst by missing days or not playing your full daily 100 every day, buy thirst when you have the time.
I'm going to have to disagree with you on this.

Lets look at the scenario of a NON-SHROOMER who is a daily full time player.

We'll assume each player starts with 25 Mushrooms and makes their Mount purchase immediately.

First, we need to establish a baseline of mushroom acquisition.

Based upon NO MOUNT and NO BEERS, the average time it takes to acquire 25 mushrooms is around 50 days or 5000 thirst

Based upon 30% MOUNT and NO BEERS, the average time it takes to acquire 25 mushrooms is around 35 days or 3500 thirst (50 * .7 or 30% reduction of time)

Based upon 50% MOUNT and NO BEERS, the average time it takes to acquire 25 mushrooms is around 25 days or 2500 thirst (50 * .5 or 50% reduction of time)

-----

Next, we need to establish the duration period, lets go with 364 days since thats close to a year (365 days) and its divisible by 14 days (mount duration) to 26 mounts purchased.

In order to purchase NO MOUNT, you would need an expenditure of 0 Mushrooms

In order to purchase 26 30% Mounts (1 Mushroom each), you would need an expenditure of 26 Mushrooms

In order to purchase 26 50% Mounts (25 Mushrooms each), you would need an expenditure of 650 Mushrooms

-----

Next, lets establish accumulated mushrooms based upon mount, this is how many mushrooms you acquire over a 364 day period

For NO MOUNT and NO BEERS, or (364/50 * 25), you accumulate 182 Mushrooms

For 30% MOUNT and NO BEERS, or (364/35 * 25), you accumulate 260 Mushrooms

For 50% MOUNT and NO BEERS, or (364/25 * 25), you accumulate 364 Mushrooms

-----

Next, lets establish how many days we can be with mount, how many days we have to be without mount, and how many mushrooms we have left over.

For NO MOUNT, you accumulate 182 Mushrooms and expend 0 mushrooms, meaning you spend 364 Days with NO MOUNT, and 182 Mushrooms left over

For 30% MOUNT, you accumulate 260 Mushrooms, and expend 26 Mushrooms for 26 Mounts, meaning you spend 364 Days with 30% MOUNT, 0 days with NO MOUNT, and 234 Mushrooms left over

For 50% MOUNT, you accumulate 364 Mushrooms, and need 650 Mushrooms for 26 Mounts, therefore you can purchase 14 Mounts for 196 Days with 50% MOUNT, 168 Days with NO MOUNT, and 14 Mushrooms left over (364/25 = 14.56) (14*14 = 196) (364-196=168) (25*.56=14)

-----

Now, we have established our baseline for Thirst WITHOUT buying BEER

Here is what we know based upon the above ...

For 364 Days you have the following Thirst available

NO MOUNT gives you 36400 Thirst

30% MOUNT gives you 47320 Thirst (30% More)

50% MOUNT for 196 Days gives you 29400 Thirst (50% More) + NO MOUNT for 168 Days gives you 16800 Thirst for a total of 46200 Thirst

-----

Next, lets establish how much additional Thirst we receive from purchasing Beer with our Mounts

NO MOUNT receives 182 Beers from leftover mushrooms, for 3640 additional Thirst (182x20) (20 Thirst + 0%)

30% Mount receives 234 Beers from leftover mushrooms, for 6084 additional Thirst (234x26) (20 Thirst + 30%)

50% Mount receives 14 Beers from leftover mushrooms, for 420 additional Thirst (14x30) (20 Thirst + 50%)

-----

An interesting note, we need to add additional mushrooms accumulated from the additional Thirst

NO MOUNT received an additional 3640 Thirst which would result in an additional 18 Mushrooms or an additional 360 Thirst (3640/5000 * 25)

30% MOUNT received an additional 6084 Thirst which would result in an additional 43 Mushrooms or an additional 1118 Thirst (6084/3500 * 25) (20 + 30%)

50% MOUNT received an additional 420 Thirst which would result in an additional 4 Mushrooms or an additional 120 Thirst (420/2500 * 25) (20 + 50%)
-----
If you add the Thirst from Mount with the Thirst from Beer you get the following results

NO MOUNT = 36400 + 3640 + 360 = 40400 Thirst

30% MOUNT = 47320 + 6084 + 1118 = 54522 Thirst

50% MOUNT = 46200 + 420 + 120 = 46740 Thirst

-----

From here, you can see the average daily thirst you utilize from Mounts and Beers

NO MOUNT = 40400 Thirst / 364 Days = 111 Thirst per Day
30% MOUNT = 54522 Thirst / 364 Days = 150 Thirst per Day
50% MOUNT = 46740 Thirst / 364 Days = 128 Thirst per Day

-----

Conclusion
50% MOUNT has an overall 15% advantage over NO MOUNT and 30% MOUNT has an overall 35% advantage over NO MOUNT

Therefore, assuming the baseline is correct, for a FULL TIME DAILY NON SHROOMER, the 30% MOUNT + BEER is 20% more efficient than the 50% MOUNT + BEER. This is also assuming your mushroom expenditure is 100% on MOUNT or BEER


-----

This goes back to the old standby ...

If you're a SHROOMER = 50% Mount
If you're a NON SHROOMER = 30% Mount
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  #9  
Old 09-01-2011, 03:01 PM
Charista Charista is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWGuinness View Post
I'm going to have to disagree with you on this.

Lets look at the scenario of a NON-SHROOMER who is a daily full time player.

We'll assume each player starts with 25 Mushrooms and makes their Mount purchase immediately.

First, we need to establish a baseline of mushroom acquisition.

Based upon NO MOUNT and NO BEERS, the average time it takes to acquire 25 mushrooms is around 50 days or 5000 thirst

Based upon 30% MOUNT and NO BEERS, the average time it takes to acquire 25 mushrooms is around 35 days or 3500 thirst (50 * .7 or 30% reduction of time)

Based upon 50% MOUNT and NO BEERS, the average time it takes to acquire 25 mushrooms is around 25 days or 2500 thirst (50 * .5 or 50% reduction of time)
You have not stated the %ages that you are using for mushroom drop frequency nor the average quest time.

We know from a statement by itzKoopa (or Leander... I forget which) that the frequency is 8% per quest without a mount and 5% with a 50 mount, but they didn't state for 10, 20, and 30 mounts. Someone I trust told me that it is also 8% for 10, 7% for 20, and 6% for 30.

From my own quest sampling, the average length of quests is 2.5 segments, assuming that you are not sacrificing XP for shorter quest length in order to raise mushrooms/day. (Basically, 1, 2, 3, and 4 appear with equal frequency, so average = (1+2+3+4)/4 = 2.5.)

So, the quests per day is:

00 mount: 100/(2.5x5) = 8. 8x.08 = 0.64 mushrooms/day. 25 mushrooms would be generated in 39 days.

30 mount: 100/(2.5x3.5) = 11.4. 11.4x.06 = 0.684 mushrooms/day. 25 mushrooms would be generated in 36.5 days.

50 mount: 100/(2.5x2.5) = 16. 16x.05 = 0.8 mushrooms/day. 25 mushrooms would be generated in 31.25 days.

To raise your mushroom per day rate to 1/day, you would need an average of 20 quests per day with a 50 mount. To achieve that, you need to lower your average quest length to 4 minutes, which means a significant loss of XP. How much? Quite a bit, actually. If you always take the shortest quest, your average quest length diminishes to 1.56, and at 2.5 minutes, that's an average 3.9 minute quest length. that means you'll also be getting the average quest reward, most of the time (exception: when there are two short quests of differing rewards, in whcih case you get a small boost).

From my own testing, I had average rewards of 246K for all recorded quests, but 325K for all taken quests. That's 75%. You are easily giving up far more to generate more mushrooms than those extra mushrooms are giving you.So, you're increasing your mushrooms per day by 0.2 (gaining 0.2x20 = 4 thirst) by costing yourself 25% of your XP (effectively giving up 25 thirst). That math fails my goals entirely. By going for Max XP and getting the incidental 0.8 per day, my shrooms are pure profit on top of Max XP, with no associated losses.

So while I'm sure your math makes sense to you, it is predicated on faulty assumptions, and does not consider the basic goal of improving your general situation through additional effort.

BTW, here's the real math:

Code:
Player generates 25 shrooms and starts clean with no mount.

1) Buy 50 mount, Use 15 day trick

Total Thirst = 1500
Quest Segments = 1500/2.5 = 600
Average Mushrooms generated = 600/2.5 * 0.05 = 12

2) Buy 30 mount, use 24 for thirst. Assume player knows 15 day trick for mounts.

Total thirst = 15x100+24x20 = 1980
Quest segments = 1980/3.5 = 565.7
Average mushrooms generated = 565.7/2.5 * 0.06 = 13.5
1.5 mushrooms used for additional thirst
30 additional thirst
Quest Segments = 2010/3.5 = 574.3
Average mushrooms generated = 574.3/2.5 * 0.06 = 13.78
We could iterate again, but it won't add enough to matter.

Both players end with 12 mushrooms towards next iteration.
Conclusion: The 25 Mount is better, slightly (4.6%, or one level every 23 days). Not as much as I initially indicated. It doesn't matter significantly. The most important point is that if you choose the 25 mount, make certain you play every day. If you can't guarantee that, then go with 30 and thirst instead.

Last edited by Charista; 09-01-2011 at 03:04 PM.
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  #10  
Old 09-01-2011, 07:36 PM
BMWGuinness BMWGuinness is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charista View Post
You have not stated the %ages that you are using for mushroom drop frequency nor the average quest time.

We know from a statement by itzKoopa (or Leander... I forget which) that the frequency is 8% per quest without a mount and 5% with a 50 mount, but they didn't state for 10, 20, and 30 mounts. Someone I trust told me that it is also 8% for 10, 7% for 20, and 6% for 30.

From my own quest sampling, the average length of quests is 2.5 segments, assuming that you are not sacrificing XP for shorter quest length in order to raise mushrooms/day. (Basically, 1, 2, 3, and 4 appear with equal frequency, so average = (1+2+3+4)/4 = 2.5.)

So, the quests per day is:

00 mount: 100/(2.5x5) = 8. 8x.08 = 0.64 mushrooms/day. 25 mushrooms would be generated in 39 days.

30 mount: 100/(2.5x3.5) = 11.4. 11.4x.06 = 0.684 mushrooms/day. 25 mushrooms would be generated in 36.5 days.

50 mount: 100/(2.5x2.5) = 16. 16x.05 = 0.8 mushrooms/day. 25 mushrooms would be generated in 31.25 days.

To raise your mushroom per day rate to 1/day, you would need an average of 20 quests per day with a 50 mount. To achieve that, you need to lower your average quest length to 4 minutes, which means a significant loss of XP. How much? Quite a bit, actually. If you always take the shortest quest, your average quest length diminishes to 1.56, and at 2.5 minutes, that's an average 3.9 minute quest length. that means you'll also be getting the average quest reward, most of the time (exception: when there are two short quests of differing rewards, in whcih case you get a small boost).

From my own testing, I had average rewards of 246K for all recorded quests, but 325K for all taken quests. That's 75%. You are easily giving up far more to generate more mushrooms than those extra mushrooms are giving you.So, you're increasing your mushrooms per day by 0.2 (gaining 0.2x20 = 4 thirst) by costing yourself 25% of your XP (effectively giving up 25 thirst). That math fails my goals entirely. By going for Max XP and getting the incidental 0.8 per day, my shrooms are pure profit on top of Max XP, with no associated losses.

So while I'm sure your math makes sense to you, it is predicated on faulty assumptions, and does not consider the basic goal of improving your general situation through additional effort.

BTW, here's the real math:

Code:
Player generates 25 shrooms and starts clean with no mount.

1) Buy 50 mount, Use 15 day trick

Total Thirst = 1500
Quest Segments = 1500/2.5 = 600
Average Mushrooms generated = 600/2.5 * 0.05 = 12

2) Buy 30 mount, use 24 for thirst. Assume player knows 15 day trick for mounts.

Total thirst = 15x100+24x20 = 1980
Quest segments = 1980/3.5 = 565.7
Average mushrooms generated = 565.7/2.5 * 0.06 = 13.5
1.5 mushrooms used for additional thirst
30 additional thirst
Quest Segments = 2010/3.5 = 574.3
Average mushrooms generated = 574.3/2.5 * 0.06 = 13.78
We could iterate again, but it won't add enough to matter.

Both players end with 12 mushrooms towards next iteration.
Conclusion: The 25 Mount is better, slightly (4.6%, or one level every 23 days). Not as much as I initially indicated. It doesn't matter significantly. The most important point is that if you choose the 25 mount, make certain you play every day. If you can't guarantee that, then go with 30 and thirst instead.
I see where you're going, but I don't see where you account for the time spent waiting for mushrooms to build back up to 25 to purchase the 50% mount again. Based on this, after 15 days you have only accumulated 12 mushrooms and need to accumulate 13 more, which based upon your 00 mount would take an additional 20 days. So based on this, the 30% mount still averages better over a period of 35 days. Am I missing something here?
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