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  #1  
Old 10-10-2010, 01:58 PM
Crazy Harry Crazy Harry is offline
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Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 67
Default Guild Dungeon new flawed system ?

Now I was happy staying put in my smaller less powerful guild, but now there is an issue, to keep up with the top dogs I am being forced into a Guild with power players as the main base (maybe forced is the wrong word but to stay within a chance of playing competitively at the top I would have to switch Guilds)

Now I am sure loads will say no i am wrong but look at it this way, the guild I am in was maxed out for exp and gold, now while to start with we will be able to extend those by a certain % we will never be able to keep up with the Guilds with 90% of the player base being power players.

The same is going to happen to guilds below us too who are also sat at what they thought was a maximum threshold, I have a feeling there is going to be quite a lot of switching around now with the higher players trying to eek out that extra percentage where before many were happy to stay in a midfield Guild.

Many might say this is a good thing, I disagree as I have a feeling we will have lots of disgruntled players feeling left out not being able to achieve these levels of exp and gold thus in turn we could lose many players.

Just my thoughts but I feel a valid one

as for me i am staying in the guild I am in but have now scaled back and will not be a power player so will slip down the charts, and buy many less mushrooms than I did before.

comments and feelings welcome, please read it all though it is not a complaint as we needed something fresh but I hope it does not have the negative impression on the game I feel will happen.

Anyway onto the point what are your tactics going to be, I think the only one we can now do is try to merge with another Guild and go for that extra percentage gain.

Last edited by Crazy Harry; 10-10-2010 at 01:59 PM.
  #2  
Old 10-11-2010, 01:04 PM
Jengas Jengas is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 168
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I'm not exactly understanding what you're saying. I think you said you're at max guild stats, and you're wondering how you'll stay competitive with guilds who have mostly "power players" I'm guessing you mean mushroom buyers? It's hard to be a power player any other way since this game has a limited amount of progress you can make in a day.

Fortunately, guild dungeons don't require mushrooms, and if you already have max guild stats, saving up for a guild dungeon should take no time at all. My current guild was able to donate the money to run our first dungeon within 2 days.

If you're already at max stats, I don't see how you'd not be competitive in guild rankings.

Swapping guilds or merging guilds is unnecessary. Especially if it means giving up your guild to merge with someone else's. That's a complete waste of money and I'd recommend against it.

I tell this to all my guildmates but your guild ranking has very little practical benefit except bragging rights. We often go for upgrades (and now guild dungeons) over raids (err guild wars), but we still have raids regularly to keep things fun. I wouldn't get all bent out of shape over your guild rankings. Just enjoy the game for what it is. Improved rankings will come naturally.
  #3  
Old 10-11-2010, 09:04 PM
gensou gensou is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 137
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what crazy harry is trying to say is that mid level guilds that had already achieved maximum possible exp and gold bonuses will now be unable to due to the level of difficult from guild dungeons, forcing top players from midlevel guilds to leave and look for better guilds to attain better bonuses. I agree with him on this, the guild dungeons shouldn't be this hard so that everyone has a chance to get the bonuses.

Also, i'm pretty sure once we hit the level 25 guild dungeon mark, it will require mushrooms as well as gold.
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  #4  
Old 10-11-2010, 09:13 PM
Bullbound Bullbound is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2010
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The devs have already stated repeatedly (based on locations) that the guild dungeons will only cost gold. They are meant to be a challenge for a long time to the players, including the oldest servers. Yes, younger servers and guilds will have a harder time beating the same number of dungeons as those on the oldest servers with the oldest characters, but that is what growth and development are about. The guild dungeons are a test to see how high you can go, and then for everyone to improve and work together to try again until the guild wins.
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  #5  
Old 10-11-2010, 11:54 PM
halicia halicia is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 15
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If anything, I feel this will help level the playing field for guilds.

Its easier then before for us to reach the member cap, and while it may cost the same to cap gold/xp%, (and be more challenging to cap completely) the relative difference between my guild and a capped guild has reduced since our non-mushroom contributing members can now help fund the guild dungeons.

It also gives us something to work towards besides guildwars. =)
  #6  
Old 10-12-2010, 08:10 AM
Ksana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gensou View Post
what crazy harry is trying to say is that mid level guilds that had already achieved maximum possible exp and gold bonuses will now be unable to due to the level of difficult from guild dungeons, forcing top players from midlevel guilds to leave and look for better guilds to attain better bonuses. I agree with him on this, the guild dungeons shouldn't be this hard so that everyone has a chance to get the bonuses.
I also agree on this. Before dungeons release bonuses + 85-90% were considered quite good. Meaning 10 -15% gap compared to the maxed guilds.

After dungeons release, I estimate that top guilds can beat 16 dungeons without having any troubles with bosses (given +10 boss level progression observed so far, 16th dungeon corresponds to lvl 200 boss - comparable to top players current level) within a week (some already did 7).

Smaller guilds can't do dungeons higher than their best player level. Besides with dungeon gold costs, they can't do dungeons everyday.

As a result, within 1 week the dungeons created gap can be 28% (I assume 2 dungeons for smaller guilds for the same week). Let's add the gap existing before, and we get 38% - 43% overall gap compared to top guilds (you can't simultaneously do dungeons and upgrades if the guild wasn't maxed).

Such gap is really a problem and can persist for a long time. Top guilds will level faster (higher bonuses) and beat more dungeons and level even more faster. Smaller guilds won't be able to catch up.
  #7  
Old 10-12-2010, 08:52 AM
Bullbound Bullbound is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2010
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Ksana, except for the fact that leveling gets a lot slower as you go up in levels and the bonuses will come faster for the lower levelled guilds. The guilds with lower level players who most likely are not 50/50/50 already can do both guild dungeons and pay to raise their bonuses. This means that they can raise the bonuses faster and catch up to the slower to level high levels. The extra 10-20% from the guild dungeons that the high level guilds are going to be able to earn is not all that much, when you look at the increases in exp needed to gain a level.
  #8  
Old 10-12-2010, 01:58 PM
Ksana
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Well, of course there is a technical option to increase bonuses (for not maxed guids) and do dungeons at the same time. But in fact, either you save gold for dungeons or you do upgrades.
Previously there was one source of gap: players ability and willingness to donate - quite manageble by guild policies.
Currently, there is another source added: level of the top player (you can't beat high level dungeons, even if all players are donating every piece of gold they earn).
Yes, if you max first and than do dungeons - you will have only 1 source of gap remaining (that's difficult to generalize, that's the gap between top player level in your guild and top players in your server). Anyway, it will take time (to collect gold, to do raids) - all this time you would have a disadvantage of 40%, just to arrive to 10-20% gap (according to Bullbound's estimation).
I have a different estimate: 20% means 10 dungeons, i.e. 100 level dif between top players. Currently, top players at US1 are lvl 200. How many smaller guilds (not maxed out on paid bonuses) have at least 100 lvl players?
If they have a 100 lvl. now, he will not be able to level as fast as players his level in top guilds at least for that 40% disadvantage period I described earlier. That means that by the time the smaller guild max out, the gap will be more than 100 levels (don't forget XP gains after dungeons raids).

The gap will tend to increase, due to time lag. And 20% - is too optimistic, even for the starting level of dungeons created gap.
  #9  
Old 10-12-2010, 02:19 PM
Jengas Jengas is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 168
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Of course, you're assuming that none of your guild members level up. Obviously it'll be difficult to get past the guild dungeons if all of your guild members stay around level 50.

Keep upgrading your guild stats, and keep leveling up. The monsters in the guild dungeons will stay at the same level, so you'll be able to take them on at some point.

And what are you complaining about anyway?

If another guild attacks you and you lose, the only thing you'll actually lose is your rating. No gold is lost, and your exp is untouched. Maybe you got your feelings hurt, but please, it's just a game.

Do you want to be able to do attacking raids and still be competitive? You can still do that. I have no idea why you'd want to skip all the guilds that are around your level and go straight to the number one ranked guild. Of course you won't survive. That aspect never changed before the dungeons.

Are your best leveled players complaining because they can't compete with mushroom guilds? Well, mushroom guilds were always much stronger than non-paying guilds. But the guild dungeons do nothing to make anything more disadvantageous to you since none of the guild dungeons require mushrooms.

So as long as your guildmates keep leveling, and they keep donating, the "gap" you mentioned earlier won't actually exist. Once you have cleared all 50 dungeons, you will still only be 75 upgrades behind the mushroom guild. 50 if you only count the exp and gold upgrades. Have some patience my man! You will always have difficulty being competitive with a mushroom guild, but that gap was never increased because of these dungeons.
  #10  
Old 10-12-2010, 04:10 PM
Ksana
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I'm not complaning about shrooms vs. no-shrooms advantage (I'm a shroom player, by the way). I'm saying that there is a new source of gap - pretty tough for a smaller guild to handle 2 sources of gaps in the same time.
And I'm not complaining - I'm bringing up a problem.

I think dungeons created an UP or OUT choice.
I play at 3 servers (+1 at France - but it's purely for improving my French), so if nothing changes within the game/my guild :

US1 (top 100 guild) - I'd rather out (not completly out, but stop buying shrooms)
US2 (top 5 guild) - UP!!! (increase my shroom consumption)
UK1 (top 5 guild) - UP!!! (increase my shroom consumption)

I think old servers could become 1000 players (50 members of top 20 guilds) servers who madly buy shrooms competing with each other. I don't mind it as a top5 guild member - may be it's even more profitable in terms of shrooms sales for the game.

But I do mind as a top100 guild member ))) I still want to have a chance

Last edited by Ksana; 10-12-2010 at 09:37 PM. Reason: printing mistake
 

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