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  #1  
Old 11-13-2011, 02:16 PM
Evail Frog Evail Frog is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 151
Cool Guild Leaders need to be able to Give Rank & Privileges to Guild Officers

Hello everyone recently we in Just For Evil Fun had a problem with one of our guild's officer kicking all of the players from the guild. This could of been prevented if only a guild's leader was able to give Specific privileges to specified ranking guild officers.

I know most of my guilds officers. There are some basic rules to become a guild officer. You must have been a part of our guild for a minimum of 1 month or you must come with excellent references. IE I know you in real life or from another server or from another game.

In Just for evil fun I have initiated a nomination process. To become a Guild Officer, one must first be nominated by one of the Guild's current officers and then they need to be seconded by another of the Guild Officers.

Once they have been nominated & seconded, then begins the process of where they will be voted on by the current Guild members. a nominated Officer will need a minimum of 10 positive votes before they can be promoted. Should they receive to many negative votes by the guild members they could also end up being dismissed from the Guild. Once a player has passed the Guild's vote they can then be promoted to a rank of the Leaders or Second In Commands choosing.

There should only be 1 Guild Leader, 1 Guild Second In Command. 2 Guild Captains, 2 lieutenant's & up to 4 sergeants.

As it stands now we are in a sad state of affairs because of this act by a possibly hacker or by a player that has deceived me. This incident proves that there is a genuine need for there to be a order of ranking when promoting players to become Guild Officer's

Order Of ranks and privileges under that rank

Guild Leader. Can do everything

Second In Command.
Has the rank & privileges to act as a guild leader when the guilds leader is offline. This includes the ability to promote & demote players to Guild officer status.

Guild Captain.
Has the authority to Kick players from the guild and to initiate Guild Dungeon Raids. He or she can also initiate Guild wars. A captain can spend Guild Mushrooms & Gold to change the Guilds bonuses.

Guild Lieutenant or Guild war leader.
Has the authority to initiate Guild Raids & to invite players to the guild. They can not kick guild officers, nor can they kick guild members.

Guilds Sergeants
Can only invite players to a guild. They can not start a war nor can they kick players.

Privates or Ordinary guild member's
While alone they have no authority in the guild except the authority to vote. By the power of voting they can change the order of the guild's officer ranks. Player's alone hold no specific ranks or privledges of rank.

But they do have the ability to over throw the current guilds leadership or its officers. If enough players vote to oust him, a Guilds Officer can be permanently demoted in favour of the player who is just below him in order of guild rank.

This rule of power by vote even apply's to the Guilds Leader. Where all the officers take a vote and in a majority rules vote they can dethrone the current guild leader in favour of the guilds second in command taking over that position of leadership.

I do feel there needs to be a order. A standing order with various ranks to give specific officer's specific guild rights. such as mentioned above. The act of making war or for spending mushrooms on the shroomapult Or for buying up specific guild defences or levels.

There needs to be a ranked order for doing dungeon runs, or for inviting people and most certainly for kicking people. I believe only the guild leader & his acting second in command or his promoted captains should be able to kick players from a guild

while other officers can be ranked to be given specifc duties. All officers should be able to invite players of course. But only a Guilds Leader and his specified war generals can launch guild raids, dungeon raids or for kicking players out.

For example in our guild JFEF that would be 3 people in the guild with rank to make war. 2 People would have the rank to spend mushrooms and a few with the power to just send invites.

No one should be able to kick anybody unless first authorized by the guilds leader or his acting commander. This has been a problem in other guilds and until we guild leaders can give specific ranks and privledges to our own guilds officers this will always be a problem in the game.

As it stands now Just for Evil Fun will be a long time sorting out & dealing with the crap that has happened. With luck this bad act can be prevented from happening to another guild. This destructive act need not to have happened nor need it to ever happen again with a little luck this can be prevented from ever happening to another guild.

Itzkoopa I give you my thanks for your reply to my E-mail about this problem even if it was esentially useless & not what I wanted to hear at all.

Please pass this thread and this guilds problem along to the games developers.

With luck the the developers will also see the sence it makes in giving guild leaders the ability to give Rank & privileges to his or Her officers. Specific officers, need to have specific privileges under that rank.

With luck & some dedication by the games developers to encode guild Officer ranking in to the game this cruel malicious act can be prevented from happening to any other guilds.

Thank you for reading this far
signed
Devan
Player of Eva the Not So Evil Frog.
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Never give up & Never surrender. Fight with your last breath. Fight 2 live & Fight 2 survive. Never say never & never say die. In time all shall die, will we transcend & attain a place afterlife. I'm tired & I'd like to go home. My fight is not yet done, I'm not yet ready to cross. Pay Charon the ferryman when I go. He will need his gold if I am to cross the river Styx

Last edited by Evail Frog; 11-13-2011 at 02:36 PM. Reason: Spelling. if further corrections are needed please point them out
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  #2  
Old 11-13-2011, 05:03 PM
Sam Sam is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 60
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tl;dr

like the idea of title goodluck with it
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  #3  
Old 11-13-2011, 06:49 PM
Lady Java Lady Java is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2011
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Wow Evail Frog I am so sorry this happened to your guild! I hope your able to sort this out soon. It's too bad that forum rules prevents you from naming the player so that all guild leaders can be aware (beware) of this individual and not invite them into their guild.
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  #4  
Old 11-13-2011, 06:53 PM
DominicS DominicS is offline
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Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 227
Thumbs up Interesting...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam View Post
tl;dr

like the idea of title goodluck with it
lmao. No comment needed, just a

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evail Frog View Post

Order Of ranks and privileges under that rank

Guild Leader. Can do everything

Second In Command.
Has the rank & privileges to act as a guild leader when the guilds leader is offline. This includes the ability to promote & demote players to Guild officer status.
With you so far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evail Frog
Guild Captain.
Has the authority to Kick players from the guild and to initiate Guild Dungeon Raids. He or she can also initiate Guild wars. A captain can spend Guild Mushrooms & Gold to change the Guilds bonuses.
If that it is REGULAR players he can kick and NOT officers, then yes. I am kind of iffy on the allowing your Captain to spend hard earned mushroom/gold on the Guild bonuses. Might be better off leaving it in the hands of your top two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evail Frog
Guild Lieutenant or Guild war leader.
Has the authority to initiate Guild Raids & to invite players to the guild. They can not kick guild officers, nor can they kick guild members.
Is it safe to assume that he has the same authority as the Captain in initiating Guild Dungeon Raids AND Guild Wars? If so, I might just take the ability of the Dungeon Raids away from this position, too much gold involved for a potentially rogue Lieutenant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evail Frog
Guilds Sergeants
Can only invite players to a guild. They can not start a war nor can they kick players.
I would do away with this level completely. No one wants to be "promoted" JUST to be a recruiter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evail Frog
Privates or Ordinary guild member's
While alone they have no authority in the guild except the authority to vote. By the power of voting they can change the order of the guild's officer ranks. Player's alone hold no specific ranks or privledges of rank.
Nice in theory. My one caveat, with this entire thing actually, is that it may be too labor intensive for us casual players. One of the aspects of this game that I find attractive is that I can log on, set it to do a quest or guard duty, and then do something else while still progressing my game. I don't have to hover over my computer, keep stats (even though I do. ), or do any "work" in order to enjoy this game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evail Frog
No one should be able to kick anybody unless first authorized by the guilds leader or his acting commander.
If you are going to allow your Captains the ability to kick people, then you can't limit them by having them have to wait for your approval. I would agree if there is a limit set on how many people they can kick out in a 24 hour period, but it doesn't make sense to me to limit the scope of the ability given to them by the guild leader.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Evail Frog
Itzkoopa I give you my thanks for your reply to my E-mail about this problem even if it was esentially useless & not what I wanted to hear at all.
I just had to "lol" this too.


Overall, I like the idea. Not being a programmer or developer, I don't know how difficult this rank system would be to implement but I definitely think it is something that needs to be discussed and fleshed out.

Thanks for bringing up the subject!

And, sorry about what happened to your guild.
  #5  
Old 11-13-2011, 07:12 PM
Bullbound Bullbound is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DominicS View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evail Frog View Post
No one should be able to kick anybody unless first authorized by the guilds leader or his acting commander.
If you are going to allow your Captains the ability to kick people, then you can't limit them by having them have to wait for your approval. I would agree if there is a limit set on how many people they can kick out in a 24 hour period, but it doesn't make sense to me to limit the scope of the ability given to them by the guild leader.
By allowing anyone to kick members, they can do what Evail Frog is complaining about, with emptying the guild. If there is a limit per 24 hours, then that puts some control, but then folks will complain about their 5 best players getting the boot. It is a never ending change. Eventually, it becomes "only the guild leader should be able to kick someone" which gets countered with "the guild leader could use some help."
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  #6  
Old 11-13-2011, 07:39 PM
DominicS DominicS is offline
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Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 227
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullbound View Post
By allowing anyone to kick members, they can do what Evail Frog is complaining about, with emptying the guild. If there is a limit per 24 hours, then that puts some control, but then folks will complain about their 5 best players getting the boot. It is a never ending change. Eventually, it becomes "only the guild leader should be able to kick someone" which gets countered with "the guild leader could use some help."

I don't know about that, Bull. By limiting the "unlimited" kicking to 2 players, the onus is squarely on the Guild Leader because he/she promoted that 2nd in command, TO the position. I think it will help in enforcing the idea that what happened to Evail Frog's guild was REALLY his fault because he promoted that 2nd in command (just using you as an example, Frog, not specifically to your situation, okay?)

With the point about the 5 best players getting the boot, remember that the Captains can only boot regular players not officers, so ideally your regular players wouldn't be your "best" players. That point aside, it is MUCH easier to remember 5 players that you have to invite back into the guild than 40!

I still think this is a viable idea!
  #7  
Old 11-13-2011, 09:55 PM
Evail Frog Evail Frog is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 151
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Captains can kick regular players only
the guild leader and his second in command can kick guild officers. only the leader and the second in command can spend mushrooms on the shroomapult

Captains can launch dungeon raids and if they are donating mushrooms and gold i do not see why I can not also give them the right to spend that gold and the guilds mushrooms on our guild stats. but that is moot in JFEF since they are all over max anyways.

lieutenants can only launch guild wars no dungeon raids.

what's wrong with giving recruiters a rank ? Our guilds recruiters are just as vital to the guild just as vital if not more so than some officers. A recruiter should also hold rank they should be recognized for there worth. recruiters sometimes do more for a guild than some of its current officers do..
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Never give up & Never surrender. Fight with your last breath. Fight 2 live & Fight 2 survive. Never say never & never say die. In time all shall die, will we transcend & attain a place afterlife. I'm tired & I'd like to go home. My fight is not yet done, I'm not yet ready to cross. Pay Charon the ferryman when I go. He will need his gold if I am to cross the river Styx
  #8  
Old 11-13-2011, 10:11 PM
Bullbound Bullbound is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DominicS View Post
I don't know about that, Bull. By limiting the "unlimited" kicking to 2 players, the onus is squarely on the Guild Leader because he/she promoted that 2nd in command, TO the position. I think it will help in enforcing the idea that what happened to Evail Frog's guild was REALLY his fault because he promoted that 2nd in command (just using you as an example, Frog, not specifically to your situation, okay?)

With the point about the 5 best players getting the boot, remember that the Captains can only boot regular players not officers, so ideally your regular players wouldn't be your "best" players. That point aside, it is MUCH easier to remember 5 players that you have to invite back into the guild than 40!

I still think this is a viable idea!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evail Frog View Post
only the guild leader and his second in command can kick guild officers. only the leader and the second in command can spend mushrooms on the shroomapult
Sorry, I mixed up all the ranks. This is what I was trying to talk about. The 2nd in command could still do a lot of damage. Yes, limitations help. But, why add so many layers when there is an easier control in place that is a lot less complicated? Guild Leaders get to choose whom their officers are. Why assign an officer you do not trust and know? If you do know and trust them, then under either situation you are still up the creek. Those with the power to remove could do as much as they are capable of, and it might be harder to catch them. If no one else, or few people are on, it isn't hard to boot a few, donate money so the boot is out of chat, and rinse/repeat. I'm just saying, it helps but it doesn't solve.
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  #9  
Old 11-14-2011, 11:34 AM
GeorgeKen GeorgeKen is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 102
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If the "second in command" kicks all players, then i guess he shouldn't have been the "second in command" in the first place. I have experienced this issue in my guild, we came down to the "we should be more carefull of who we trust next time" answer.

I wont even bother discussing the "limitation to the number of kicks per day", i will simply laugh with that.

I agree to the original post though. It is not logical that an officer cannot change the guild description, and also it is not logical that the guild leader can't distiguish the jobs a guild needs between his officers. We have actually done this manually by putting 1 officer in charge for all the recruiting (me), but that should be done from the game (putting in charge of kicking / inviting only one officer) so that this problem might be avoided
  #10  
Old 11-15-2011, 02:11 AM
Evail Frog Evail Frog is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 151
Lightbulb What am I to do now? Oh what does a leader do when the trust is stolen away

The thing is the person who did kick out all the members from our guild would of only held a sergeants rank had I been able to have given my officers ranks at the time I promoted them to officers.. Elitekiller would never have been able to have done so much damage to our guild had there been some safeguards in place.

I can not go Demoting all of our guilds Officers that is not a option. but it would be the only choice I have available to me until some safeguards can be implemented to prevent this sort of thing from happening ever again.

I can not go meet these people in real life. Hell fire and damnation I know none of these people aside from here in the game & I do not know about the other guilds on here but i can say this about mine.

I need my officers to help me out, I am not a good leader at all. My officers make up for al l the things I lack. They keep me from becoming a despot, they also help keep me in line. they constantly remember things I forget. And last but not least my guild officers remind me that this is a game we all play just for fun. Without my guild officers I would just be a lonely member playing a game.

Without these guild Officers our guild would not hold the rank we do. Because of the officers help and because of of our guilds great player members we climbed quickly up the hall of fame and became one of the Top 25 guilds.

I Admit I am no great Kasheem. The Original founder of Just For Fun. I do not have the money he did I can not buy thousands of mushrooms to build the guild or to bring the players in. I do my best but that is not near enough to run this guild or keep it in the top 25. Only my officers are capable of doing that. They are the true strength behind this guild.

I am nothing without them.

My second in command should be able to change the guild description or to edit things such as announce guild wars or things like when players are away or even make a guild announcement of a guild Member's birthday.

There are many things I would love to see implemented.

But for now I will settle for having a cap placed on the maximum amount of players that can be kicked out of the guild at 2 players per 24 hour period. By any guild officer other than the guilds leader.

By having a cap like that in place we can prevent this tragedy from ever happening to some one else's guild. At least we can prevent it until there are some additional things added such as either a guild officers rank

Or until we have the ability to designate what permissions a guild officer will have with in the guild

Until those things can be changed for each of our guilds officer's I will have no choice but to demote the entire contingent of Guild Officers just in the vain effort of keeping the entire guilds membership safe from getting the boot by another player that became a guild officer with the intent of causing malicious damage.

So what do I do in the mean time Do I Demote every single one of our guilds needed officers. To help keep what is left of the guild membership safe

Or do I take the risk and let all of the current officers keep there rank knowing that I am taking a massive risk because I am trusting them to be honest & that none of them harbour any ill will towards the remainder of our guild.

This is a giant risk because I do not know these people, I do not know there hearts. I do not know them in real life I only know them from playing a game we all "supposedly" love. But the problem is this for all I know hidden amongst these officers could be another player that is like Elitekiller

Someone who is harbouring some deep secret desire of destroying our guild by going on another guild member destroying rampage once we have finished rebuilding it.
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Never give up & Never surrender. Fight with your last breath. Fight 2 live & Fight 2 survive. Never say never & never say die. In time all shall die, will we transcend & attain a place afterlife. I'm tired & I'd like to go home. My fight is not yet done, I'm not yet ready to cross. Pay Charon the ferryman when I go. He will need his gold if I am to cross the river Styx
 

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