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  #11  
Old 10-12-2010, 09:28 PM
Charista Charista is offline
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This change provides just that much more reason to join the highest ranked guild you can, to merge and get rid of retirees, and to stay active. A lone high level player staying in a low rank guild to "help" others is now hurting himself far more, as other similarly leveled people in higher ranked guilds have hgiher revenue and leveling rates, leaving the loner behind. It's a choice, but it's one made just that much harder. A HLP loner can no longer compete on the HoF long term, as a little dungeon advantage accumulates. The players in the higher dungeon guild advance towards the next dungeon just that much faster, widening the gap.

So, yeah, some HLP's in lower level guilds have a hard decision to make. Helping their buddies now means hurting themselves over the long term. But "Out"? Yes, out of their low level guilds into the higher ranked guilds.
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Zombunny: RIP
Time of Death: 17:32 PDT November 14, 2011
It has passed into Myth and Legend.

http://zombunny.guildlaunch.com/index.php?gid=236408
  #12  
Old 10-13-2010, 01:24 PM
KarmaChameleon KarmaChameleon is offline
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Let me say that I see your guys points about the widening gap between guild members and even players. It's true that a 10-20% boost is negligible in the beginning, but it does become more of an issue after 6 months or a year has passed.

I think the biggest problem is that there is a cap to how much one can play a day. I am not saying I have a problem with it, I'm simply saying the problem the dungeons might cause. In other games you have to be a certain level to gain access to a certain achievement. But (arguably) crazy players can power level by not sleeping, eating or bathing and thus it doesn't become a problem.

However, in S&F, it is theoretically impossible for a lower level player to ever catch up with a higher level player that maxes out his beer/thirst/dragon usage everyday and the extra bonuses from the dungeons make it worse.

I think the only thing that can be done however is to wait and see. The guild dungeons have already been implemented and there is nothing that can be done about it.

You also have to think about what motivations people have for playing the game. Some guilds are built just to be laid back environments and some are built solely for competition. A lower level guild might not care that it will always be in the middle because they are having fun. I think higher leveled players who leave their guilds will always be inclined to do so.

So to sum up, I see merit in your argument, but let's see how it pans out.
  #13  
Old 10-13-2010, 02:55 PM
Charista Charista is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarmaChameleon View Post
Let me say that I see your guys points about the widening gap between guild members and even players. It's true that a 10-20% boost is negligible in the beginning, but it does become more of an issue after 6 months or a year has passed.
Let's also watch how many people have the sticktoitiveness to play 6 months. I know GD's have inspired one former shroomer to return to spending money and caused another player to not retire, so from a profitability perspective, Playa just won a bit more cash.

Quote:
But (arguably) crazy players can power level by not sleeping, eating or bathing and thus it doesn't become a problem.
All of those sound like Real Life problems to me.

Quote:
However, in S&F, it is theoretically impossible for a lower level player to ever catch up with a higher level player that maxes out his beer/thirst/dragon usage everyday and the extra bonuses from the dungeons make it worse.
Two factors make that conclusion false.

1. Level/day decreases the higher level you are, so a low level player with the same play time as a higher level player will catch up a little bit every day. This is especially true catching up to L150, where the exp cranks down seriously. At that point, you no longer measure how many levels you're behind someone, but how many *days* you're behind.

2. As you gain level, the linear nature of the system means you do more damage as a %age of enemy hit bar in a fight. Ie. A L50 can beat 4 Level 40's. But a L150 would have a hard time beating 2 L140's.

No, maybe you can never catch and pass the higher level players, but you can become increasingly powerful relative to their strength.

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I think the only thing that can be done however is to wait and see. The guild dungeons have already been implemented and there is nothing that can be done about it.
Math works as an analysis tool in any number-based game, at least, last I checked.

Quote:
You also have to think about what motivations people have for playing the game.
Do I? Really, I couldn't care less.

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Some guilds are built just to be laid back environments and some are built solely for competition.
The latter is much rarer in this game, saith one of the most competitive players on the server.... We've removed any reference to being "laid back" for just that reason... Even at the highest rankings, most guilds still claim they're fun and laid back.

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A lower level guild might not care that it will always be in the middle because they are having fun.
In which case they're happy. don't care about not competing, and therefore are irrelevant to this conversation.

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I think higher leveled players who leave their guilds will always be inclined to do so.
Players that leave do so for many reasons. Here's a few:
1) Guild has become a graveyard. (Retired players retained until the guild has died.)
2) Personality conflicts.
3) Leadership making dictatorial decisions.
4) Feelings of being under-appreciated or disrespected.
5) Discovery of cheaters in the guild.

None of these imply a player lacks loyalty. These are loyalties being abused. High level players leave for the same reason as low level players, and it rarely has anything to do with power. Power moves happen as mergers, not guild jumping, which just devastated the top 10 rankings a month ago. (To the benefit of the Rank 8-12 guilds.)

Quote:
So to sum up, I see merit in your argument, but let's see how it pans out.
I don't need to. The math is easy. Those that unite and defeat dungeons together will advance faster. Those that hold themselves to some pathological concept of loyalty (or prima donna-ism), or simply don't care about competition, will fall behind. Guild Dungeons promote personal and guild advancement, and those that want to be competitive will have to make some harsh decisions. It is already happening. The Endless had two weeks of dead applications until GD's came out, and now it's 2 per day. GD's already have made their impact, and people are moving.
__________________
Zombunny: RIP
Time of Death: 17:32 PDT November 14, 2011
It has passed into Myth and Legend.

http://zombunny.guildlaunch.com/index.php?gid=236408

Last edited by Charista; 10-13-2010 at 05:02 PM.
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moreum (10-13-2010)
  #14  
Old 10-14-2010, 03:45 AM
Ksana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charista View Post
This change provides just that much more reason to join the highest ranked guild you can, to merge and get rid of retirees, and to stay active. A lone high level player staying in a low rank guild to "help" others is now hurting himself far more, as other similarly leveled people in higher ranked guilds have hgiher revenue and leveling rates, leaving the loner behind. It's a choice, but it's one made just that much harder. A HLP loner can no longer compete on the HoF long term, as a little dungeon advantage accumulates. The players in the higher dungeon guild advance towards the next dungeon just that much faster, widening the gap.

So, yeah, some HLP's in lower level guilds have a hard decision to make. Helping their buddies now means hurting themselves over the long term. But "Out"? Yes, out of their low level guilds into the higher ranked guilds.
That was very powerful and convincing. Best recruiting speech, although not intended to be such.

No wonder you have 2 applications per day

I'm glad and thankfull that you took me in
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moreum (10-14-2010)
 

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