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  #1  
Old 04-13-2010, 11:01 AM
Ejayrazz Ejayrazz is offline
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Default Defined: Stealing Members

Quite a few people are a little confused when they inaccurately state whether a foreign guild has "stolen their member."

What is "stealing members?"
Stealing members is when an entity, or individual, intentionally contacts individuals in another guild and attempts to persuade them in leaving their current guild and joining a new one. This usually involves a market pitch to some degree, such as promising a specific rank, specific benefits, or a better atmosphere.

Why is stealing members "looked down upon"
Stealing members is looked down upon for a few reasons.

I. You're breaching a foreign entity's sovereignty. In other words, each guild has the right to protect its members and provide a safe haven. When someone wishes to breach a foreign entity's rights, it is by legitimate means considered an act of war -- not to be confused with a "guild battle," which is what that button does in-game.

II. You're actions represent your guild; by using deception and treachery, you're politically defining your morals as a guild. This also turns off many other players; if a leader and or individual is willing to use lies and deceptions to gain their goals externally, the same methods could be used internally.

III. Desperation. If you're desperate for members, it is because you're desperate to maintain political control. If you're willing to sacrifice anything to maintain power, you are effectively stating power comes before everything else. If a leader practices such ideals, it can ruin your internal atmosphere -- after all, friendship is what builds guilds, not "power." Power is a result.

What if a member comes to you and wishes to seek admittance?
This isn't considered "stealing a member." If you are the leader of a guild, you're doing your job by trying to act in its best interest through expansion. People make threads all the time advertising, but they do so because those who wish to see their advertisement willingly venture in on their own accord.

Poaching is bad.
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Last edited by Ejayrazz; 04-13-2010 at 11:39 AM.
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  #2  
Old 04-13-2010, 11:19 AM
Bloodia Bloodia is offline
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Disclaimer : The definition of stealing can vary from person to person since stealing can be vaguely insinuated in about just everything.
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Last edited by Bloodia; 04-13-2010 at 11:20 AM.
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  #3  
Old 04-13-2010, 11:26 AM
Ejayrazz Ejayrazz is offline
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Provide examples please. Normally I would see your point, but this is more so of black and white with very little grey.
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  #4  
Old 04-13-2010, 11:32 AM
Cashew Cashew is offline
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To me, there's no such thing as "stealing" a member from another guild.

You send the member you want a message. They read the message. They then can take one of two paths. They either decide you're an idiot for approaching them because you're already in a guild you like, and you politely/rudely decline their offer. OR, you're already dissatisfied with your guild (or haven't been there long enough to know whether you should be satisfied or not), and wouldn't mind looking for greener pastures. You take their offer by willingly leaving your guild and join theirs.

I don't see how any of this is "stealing". Sure, there was an in-game message that was sent with some enticing benefits of leaving your guild. But unless they also stalked the member, went to their house, then held a gun to their head and forced them to click a bunch of buttons to change guilds, there's no "stealing" that occurred. Someone used their own judgement (good or bad) and exercised their internet freedom to leave you and join someone else.

Oh, and trying to entice strong members out of one guild and into yours is part of what this game is all about. It's a power-play to see if you can dominate the game; and, generally speaking, dominant players like playing with other dominant players until they get bored.

So someone sent you a message to see if you wanted to change guilds. Big whoop. Quit whining.
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Old 04-13-2010, 11:40 AM
Bloodia Bloodia is offline
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The way i see it, it's like going to a bigger job, the smaller company will feel that they got stolen.
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Old 04-13-2010, 11:47 AM
Jayman Jayman is offline
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In stealing members are ever 2 persons involved
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  #7  
Old 04-13-2010, 11:49 AM
Ejayrazz Ejayrazz is offline
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@Cashew: It is considered "poaching," which is looked down upon universally. Poaching, as stated, breaches sovereignty. You are actively declaring war by trying to recruit from other guilds. You are actively trying to take a valuable asset to a guild; if they wish to leave, they will do so on their own accord. There are numerous methods for recruitment:

1. Thread advertisement
2. Signature advertisement
3. The Guild Bio's mission statements
4 Other created application usage; such as graphics, songs, or other media-like means.


Example: A female wearing practically nothing starts rubbing herself against your lover. He politely tells her he has a girlfriend, and that you are right beside him. She says, "Who cares? We can still have fun together, really, look at me and look at her. You're wasting your time cutie." Will you get a little angry? Even a little? Of course you are, it is common human instinct. If he wants to leave you, he is a big boy; he can do so, but I am sure Cashew would have put that girl 6 feet under. ^_^

Same thing applies really, just because someone can accept or decline the offer doesn't mean it always should be made; especially when they're taken.
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Old 04-13-2010, 11:53 AM
Kaidah Kaidah is offline
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I see Jayman's point, both recruiter and recruitee (did I just make up a word?) are just as guilty.

This is not unlike corporate headhunting, you entice excellent people away from one group to yours with the promise of cash and glory. Personally, I don't think it's right. Especially seeing how there are new people joining almost hourly at this point and there are always people looking to join a guild.

If your guild can't hack it with the people you have, that doesn't mean you go actively recruiting from other guilds. I agree with Ejayrazz; it's bad form.
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  #9  
Old 04-13-2010, 12:01 PM
Cashew Cashew is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ejayrazz View Post
Example: A female wearing practically nothing starts rubbing herself against your lover. He politely tells her he has a girlfriend, and that you are right beside him. She says, "Who cares? We can still have fun together, really, look at me and look at her. You're wasting your time cutie." Will you get a little angry? Even a little? Of course you are, it is common human instinct. If he wants to leave you, he is a big boy; he can do so, but I am sure Cashew would have put that girl 6 feet under. ^_^
While I can understand your parallels, I don't quite see how they're truly related to each other.

First of all, this is a game on the internet. To me, that's enough right there, but I'll continue anyway.

Second, sure I would be pissed if some chick started gyrating against my bf, but ultimately it *IS* his decision if he decides to stray. That's almost like saying "yeah, well she made me cheat because she was rubbing against me". Really? She MADE you do it? She held a gun to your head and told you to go home with her? Somehow I doubt that.
To me, that's not the same thing as sending someone an in-game message saying something like "hey, I just saw you were in a guild that doesn't provide you with as many benefits as we would. We have XX members that are in the top 10, we provide you with XX more than what you get in your guild, and we want to have you in our guild. If you're interested, drop me a line or accept the invitation. Happy gaming!" Sure, you can tempt all you want. You can do some proverbial hip-gyrating to entice stronger players to a guild. But if they've got their big-boy pants on and thinking with the right organ in their body, they'll be able to decide for themselves what option is best for them: staying or going. And maybe the whole point of the message was to GET the other guild to declare war? Hey, what's a better way to create conflict that can only be resolved by killing each other than sending a message saying "HEY! Come play for the other team, foo!", especially if they're high-ranking.

Oh, and you're right that I would kick her hiney into next Tuesday, no worries about that
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  #10  
Old 04-13-2010, 12:11 PM
Ejayrazz Ejayrazz is offline
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But what they ARE doing is poaching. Though you're disagreeing, you're also agreeing. If someone wishes to explore their options, they can do so by any conventional means -- forums, them contacting others, etc.

Why would you beat her down? Because even though it is his decision, she is disrespecting you - intentionally or not. Imagine if Libertines recruited everyone...it'd be unfair and unethical in my eyes. Morals do exist in-game as they do out of game, which stems to how one chooses to role-play. I just believe it is savage-like and should be looked down upon, but the main reasoning of this thread is to explain the difference between poaching and those coming to you for admittance. I do rather enjoy the conversation and thank you for the input thus far.

Also, thank you for at least playing along. This is just a game, but analogies exist here like the outside world. Also, I don't hit women, but I would cheer for you. ^_^
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