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This is War! Declarations of war, guild battles, guild war videos...

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  #1  
Old 04-21-2010, 04:00 PM
cc0430 cc0430 is offline
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Default To all the Legacy haters in Libertines: Why Libertines is not better than Legacy

I think you put a lot of effort making Legacy look bad and it is totally understandable considering the fact that you are in the top guild right now. The question I want to ask is: What's the point to spend cash and make mushroom only guild? You got to admit that it is not about community since you don't need to be power players to form a wonderful community. Yes, community is part of the reason, but the competition is definitely another. I am shocked that some players have to come to another server from different region with cash(in a browser game) and previous experience to form a community. Yes, it might be a community, but a community which puts dominance as their primary goal.

Put yourself into Legacy's shoes: they are number 2( let's assume), so their goal is to beat you guys and become number 1. With current game mechanic, there is no way Legacy can catch up with you guys without "aggressive" recruiting. It is in Libertine's interest to make people fight for number 2 as long as nobody threats their number 1 position. It is totally understandable but as an outsider, I'd rather see some real competition instead of one guild's dominance.

It is easy for you guys (Libertines) to play the community card since if everyone plays nice, you guys will stay on top. You guys are not any better than Legacy; you want exactly the same thing (competition and dominance) from this game. It is hard to figure out if your "community" belief is caused by self delusion or political agenda. Only you guys could possibly know.

To readers: If you want to argue, please at least stay on topic. If you just want to throw a bunch of irrelevant argument to make yourself right, I'd appreciate that you start your own thread.
  #2  
Old 04-21-2010, 04:23 PM
Ejayrazz Ejayrazz is offline
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Your tears are delicious.

We don't put any attempt in making Legacy look bad; every thread criticizing them has been made from third parties uninvolved with Libertines, however our members will voice their opinions just like Legacy does in defending their game style, or how you try criticizing us (which is certainly acceptable) -- that is the beauty of these forums; we can voice our opinions. HOWEVER, we don't go messaging their members in-game telling them this nor do we make thousands of threads saying how 'immoral they are'. These are forums, we can say what we want in any given thread (so long as they do not violate the terms of service) but in no shape or form have we purposely came here and said "LETS MAKE THEM LOOK BAD, CREATE THREADS AFTER THREADS. I *did* make a thread about what stealing members was defined as, but that was because people were confusing what "stealing members" actually was. Example: Legacy talking to Bloodia about a merge isn't "stealing members," however messaging people in guilds, privately, *is*. That was for clarity sake. Most threads, if not all, were created from those Legacy tried to merge with who were angry or having fun, so use their name, not ours.

As in terms of people's geographical location, well that point is completely stupid because Legacy has non-US players as well, really, anyone is allowed to play this game. Neither Legacy nor Libertines have really ever made that argument.

It all comes down to playing styles, as even many Legacy members will agree to. I belong to a different game; there, 'recruiting from other guilds' will get you killed by thousands and I live by that rule even here. It's just my playing style and as far as I am concerned, Libertines have adopted that policy. Legacy was close to Libertines for a bit but some of their members left due to the internal hostilities (That is what I was told). All I can tell you, which you will not believe me but I will tell you anyways; if PW:A ever beat Libertines, I wouldn't complain. If Legacy beat us, I wouldn't cry; I'd just work harder. But what I wouldn't do is recruit from other guilds. I;d have them come to me. It has nothing to do with morals, being number one, it's just about playing style. Many agree with Legacy's style as many agree with m ine, no one is inherently "right."

YOU don't believe what we preach because we're the big bad number one boys (and girls) but we have guild requirements just like others do, and those in this guild don't complain; we don't demand them to donate those mushrooms to us nor would we ever expect that; we desire succeeding, but we also worry about our friendships. Just because you're a big boy doesn't mean you'll stay in here, we have requirements to enter the guild (as many others do) and we have requirements to remain in the guild (being friendly, nice, respectful, etc). You might not believe it, but the internal requirements are monitored, you don't need to believe me, but I can sleep soundly at night since I am actually here in the guild.

Who is better? Well of course we're gonna say us and Legacy will say them, but that is what's suppose to be said when in the midst of a fierce cold war. We don't hate each other behind the computer, we are against each other RP-wise. OOC/IC differences.
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Last edited by Ejayrazz; 04-21-2010 at 04:28 PM.
  #3  
Old 04-21-2010, 04:29 PM
shoofly shoofly is offline
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Well said cc0430, and thank you.
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LEGACY
(04/21/10) Bulleye said: "Lets face it, when 80%+ of the community hates legacy theres little to no chance Legacy will recover. So if i had one thing to say to Legacy i would say Suck it up and deal with it because there no way your digging your guild ( Legacy ) out."

Last edited by shoofly; 04-21-2010 at 06:19 PM.
  #4  
Old 04-21-2010, 04:49 PM
cc0430 cc0430 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ejayrazz View Post
Your tears are delicious.
oh no the tears, is it the best you can come up with?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ejayrazz View Post
As in terms of people's geographical location, well that point is completely stupid because Legacy has non-US players as well, really, anyone is allowed to play this game. Neither Legacy nor Libertines have really ever made that argument.
this is the only relevant reply you manage to make, so I will reply you on this point. I don't think people's geographical location matters neither, and I didn't even say it matters (where did you get the idea that it is about people's geographical location??). The reason I want to mention the "start over in US" fact is to point out that Libertines were set out to dominant the server. Nothing wrong with people play from different locations, and nothing wrong with the desire to be the best.

You didn't get what I meant at all. I don't know if it is your reading ability or my writing style. In case you misunderstood my post, I will make a summary for you. The central idea is "Legacy and Libertines both want to be the best. The difference in their behaviors only exist because of the jump start Libertines had over Legacy."

You really need to read carefully before you reply because, like I said, if you don't want to stay on topic, why not just show some respect and start your own thread?

Last edited by cc0430; 04-21-2010 at 04:56 PM.
  #5  
Old 04-21-2010, 05:06 PM
Ejayrazz Ejayrazz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cc0430 View Post
oh no the tears, is it the best you can come up with?
Given your title, it's suitable. It's all about deliverance, don't be blunt with a title and not expect a blunt response.

Quote:

this is the only relevant reply you manage to make, so I will reply you on this point.
Yeah, cause my entire response which refuted all your points is completely irrelevant.

-You mention standards on admittance, I explain why we have them.
-You mention how we try making Legacy look bad, I explain we don't make any threads attacking them, therefore our motive to destroy their image is a delusion by yourself. We comment events like you comment others, it is the cycle of these forums.
-You mention in-game mechanics and how it limits them "catching up to us," I explain even if we were a lower number ranking guild we would still be against such methods. I don't expect you to believe us, but I am telling you the truth either way.
-You mention geographical location, I say this game is open to anyone.
-As mentioned before, you mention the community card; I refuted it with how it comes down to gaming style and we don't *try* getting brownie points with *anyone*, we say how we feel.
-An expansion to my last point, you say we're delusional; I refuted this with you're delusional, we speak how we feel. You assume we preach out of our ass, but really, this game has no political fore front, their are no benefits in "lying".

Sorry, but I covered your points and refuted them, you must have a different definition of "relavance," so I must respectfully disagree with you full heartedly.

Quote:
I don't think people's geographical location matters neither, and I didn't even say it matters (where did you get the idea that it is about people's geographical location??).
"I am shocked that some players have to come to another server from different region with cash(in a browser game) and previous experience to form a community."

That was seen as it, and several people comprehended as such (I made sure I wasn't out of it, I am sick IRL presently). I think you must admit your conveyance may have been a little off, either way, it seemed as though you were saying that. Hopefully you can see how that could be perceived as such, either way, sorry if that is how it was not intended.

Quote:
You didn't get what I meant at all. I don't know if it is your reading ability or my writing style. In case you misunderstood my post, I will make a summary for you. The central idea is "Legacy and Libertines both want to be the best. The difference in their behaviors only exist because of the jump start Libertines had over Legacy."

You really need to read carefully before you reply because, like I said, if you don't want to stay on topic, why not just show some respect and start your own thread?
With all respects, I disagree. I know this means nothing to you nor should it, but my reading comprehension isn't what is suffering. Given your title, it's a complaining thread. See my above statements in summary of what I said and why I said the things I did (as in, which points I was refuting). I am not off topic either, everything I have mentioned was due to specific statements you made. I'll provide specific quotes I refuted if we really need to get to that level.

Edit: To elaborate, our standards meets our playing style.
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Last edited by Ejayrazz; 04-21-2010 at 05:21 PM.
  #6  
Old 04-21-2010, 05:44 PM
cc0430 cc0430 is offline
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Quote:
Given your title, it's suitable. It's all about deliverance, don't be blunt with a title and not expect a blunt response.
Then I guess I am right. It is the best you can come up with.

Quote:
I explain even if we were a lower number ranking guild we would still be against such methods. I don't expect you to believe us, but I am telling you the truth either way.
This is totally relevant and important. How do you know that you won't do the same thing? You haven't experienced the same situation in this game yet so there is no one, not even you, can 100% tell that you won't do it if you were in Legacy's shoes. In my opinion, nothing in life is certain.

Quote:
"I am shocked that some players have to come to another server from different region with cash(in a browser game) and previous experience to form a community."

That was seen as it, and several people comprehended as such (I made sure I wasn't out of it, I am sick IRL presently). I think you must admit your conveyance may have been a little off, either way, it seemed as though you were saying that. Hopefully you can see how that could be perceived as such, either way, sorry if that is how it was not intended.
I think it is your interpretation and I am not sure where "several people comprehended as such" are from. I need to mention locations to make my point clear, but you ignored my point and went on to twist the meaning of the whole sentence.

Quote:
With all respects, I am currently majoring in Criminology. I know this means nothing to you nor should it, but my reading comprehension isn't what is suffering. Given your title, it's a complaining thread. See my above statements in summary of what I said and why I said the things I did (as in, which points I was refuting). I am not off topic either, everything I have mentioned was due to specific statements you made. I'll provide specific quotes I refuted if we really need to get to that level.
I have a psychology degree and currently doing my PHD in philosophy. Like you said, I don't think degree matters that much. However, I do think your reading comprehension could use some improvement because the title does not imply a complaining thread. I think you are too sensitive and defensive to conclude my thread as a complaining thread where no complaint has been made.

My only complain would be your misinterpretation of my clearly stated words.

Last edited by cc0430; 04-21-2010 at 05:47 PM.
  #7  
Old 04-21-2010, 06:15 PM
Ejayrazz Ejayrazz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cc0430 View Post
Then I guess I am right. It is the best you can come up with.
You asked if it was the best I could come up with, you didn't state it.

Quote:
This is totally relevant and important. How do you know that you won't do the same thing? You haven't experienced the same situation in this game yet so there is no one, not even you, can 100% tell that you won't do it if you were in Legacy's shoes. In my opinion, nothing in life is certain.
It is relevant. You explain they need to do this to reach number one, I am saying we wouldn't. You then say that we use "The community card" by saying this and we are "delusional by public agenda". As I also refuted, there is no political fore front, we have no reason to please anyone, thus what we say is what we feel.

We do not need to be "losing" to establish certain ideals, some leaders work really hard for their members and it would be unfair, in our eyes, if we messaged everyone privately in an attempt to steal them. If anything, you should be happy as you stated, "It is totally understandable but as an outsider, I'd rather see some real competition instead of one guild's dominance." By behaving in such way, we'd only further dominate the game by personally recruiting the "best of the best." No, I find it disrespectful. Like I said, it is my playing style because of another game; in that game, recruiting from other guilds is breaching their sovereignty. I feel the same applies here. I will tell you now; I will NEVER condone such behavior (personally recruiting from other guilds by poaching). You do not need to be losing to establish this model of game play; there are those below even Legacy who believe in the same concepts as I do (PW:A, for reference, as well as Daywasters). I don't see number 3 doing it to reach number 2, or number 4 to reach number 3.

Quote:
I think it is your interpretation and I am not sure where "several people comprehended as such" are from. I need to mention locations to make my point clear, but you ignored my point and went on to twist the meaning of the whole sentence.
I didn't "twist it," several people comprehended it similar to the way I did. It was your conveyance and my inability to comprehend your wording; no one's fault. You confused quite a few of us (most don't respond here), so I don't think its necessarily fair to point the finger at me, or you, and say I intentionally "twisted" anything.

Quote:
I have a psychology degree and currently doing my PHD in philosophy. Like you said, I don't think degree matters that much. However, I do think your reading comprehension could use some improvement because the title does not imply a complaining thread. I think you are too sensitive and defensive to conclude my thread as a complaining thread where no complaint has been made.
If you have a degree in psychology, you above all people should know about proving your point in a conductive manner and the way you word certain things will dictate how those respond to you. (I'll cover this in a bit)

You have skipped nearly every point I have refuted with a "IT DOESN'T APPLY," or, "YOU'RE OFF TOPIC." If you would have stated this thread in a more convenient manner with actual evidence (Since your main argument lacked in terms of trying to say we're trying to destroy their image even though we never came here doing so. This is proven easily by the fact that such methods would require us purposely making threads to insult them, among other methods. How did we know REAL and Bloodlust would make those thread? They were entertaining, but they were not our doing)

You targeted a specific group even though other guilds have attacked them diplomatically by creating specific threads to speak or ridicule them; we've done nothing but chime our opinions in threads like active posters should and can do. The only diplomatic statement we've made is to Bloodius, which was made by Tallas telling him to chill out and insults were not needed (as he was messaged privately, being called names).
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  #8  
Old 04-21-2010, 06:17 PM
shoofly shoofly is offline
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Your tears are delicious.

We don't put any attempt in making Legacy look bad; every thread criticizing them has been made from third parties uninvolved with Libertines, however our members will voice their opinions just like Legacy does in defending their game style, or how you try criticizing us (which is certainly acceptable) -- that is the beauty of these forums; we can voice our opinions.

The OP wasn’t questioning third parties or the Libertines. He is calling out individuals that bad mouth Legacy... DevoidFury and yourself for instance.

HOWEVER, we don't go messaging their members in-game telling them this nor do we make thousands of threads saying how 'immoral they are'.

THOUSANDS OF THREADS? Aside from your numerous exaggerations on multiple threads (you seem to do that when you get excited I’ve noticed), I assure you that no member of Legacy messages other players defending our game styles… eh, not sure what you were getting at there. To clarify, we will send a polite PM to a player that looks promising, asking if he/she would consider joining our guild, but that is the extent of it.

These are forums, we can say what we want in any given thread (so long as they do not violate the terms of service) but in no shape or form have we purposely came here and said "LETS MAKE THEM LOOK BAD, CREATE THREADS AFTER THREADS.

The OP never said anything about people making “threads after threads.”

I *did* make a thread about what stealing members was defined as, but that was because people were confusing what "stealing members" actually was. Example: Legacy talking to Bloodia about a merge isn't "stealing members," however messaging people in guilds, privately, *is*. That was for clarity sake. Most threads, if not all, were created from those Legacy tried to merge with who were angry or having fun, so use their name, not ours.

You are certainly intitled to your definition of stealing, but please don't define it for the rest of us.

It all comes down to playing styles, as even many Legacy members will agree to. I belong to a different game; there, 'recruiting from other guilds' will get you killed by thousands and I live by that rule even here. It's just my playing style and as far as I am concerned, Libertines have adopted that policy. Not a bad policy at all, for the NUMBER 1 GUILD! Legacy was close to Libertines for a bit but some of their members left due to the internal hostilities (That is what I was told). All I can tell you, which you will not believe me but I will tell you anyways; if PW:A ever beat Libertines, I wouldn't complain. If Legacy beat us, I wouldn't cry; I'd just work harder. But what I wouldn't do is recruit from other guilds. I;d have them come to me. It has nothing to do with morals, being number one, it's just about playing style. Many agree with Legacy's style as many agree with m ine, no one is inherently "right."

Indeed, rules differ. But you are vilifying those that disagree with you (Legacy).

YOU don't believe what we preach because we're the big bad number one boys (and girls) but we have guild requirements just like others do, and those in this guild don't complain; we don't demand them to donate those mushrooms to us nor would we ever expect that; we desire succeeding, but we also worry about our friendships. Just because you're a big boy doesn't mean you'll stay in here, we have requirements to enter the guild (as many others do) and we have requirements to remain in the guild (being friendly, nice, respectful, etc). You might not believe it, but the internal requirements are monitored, you don't need to believe me, but I can sleep soundly at night since I am actually here in the guild.

Who is better? Well of course we're gonna say us and Legacy will say them, but that is what's suppose to be said when in the midst of a fierce cold war. We don't hate each other behind the computer, we are against each other RP-wise. OOC/IC
__________________
LEGACY
(04/21/10) Bulleye said: "Lets face it, when 80%+ of the community hates legacy theres little to no chance Legacy will recover. So if i had one thing to say to Legacy i would say Suck it up and deal with it because there no way your digging your guild ( Legacy ) out."

Last edited by shoofly; 04-21-2010 at 06:24 PM.
  #9  
Old 04-21-2010, 06:20 PM
Ejayrazz Ejayrazz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoofly View Post

The OP wasn’t questioning third parties or the Libertines. He is calling out individuals that bad mouth Legacy... DevoidFury and yourself for instance.
How was he not calling out The Libertines? It's in the title!

Quote:
THOUSANDS OF THREADS? Aside from your numerous exaggerations on multiple threads (you seem to do that when you get excited I’ve noticed), I assure you that no member of Legacy messages other players defending our game styles… eh, not sure what you were getting at there. To clarify, we will send a polite PM to a player that looks promising, asking if he/she would consider joining our guild, but that is the extent of it.
It seems you like to ignore points. You mention my writing style, but fail to refute the idea of us making threads hating Legacy. Is that because you can't refute it? Of course, because we haven't. There are far worse haters who have actually attacked you diplomatically, our name was used im the title, followed by a "you put a lot of effort making Legacy look bad and it is totally understandable considering the fact that you are in the top guild right now" which there is NO proof of because we haven't put any effort into it nor have we 'attacked you' other than members occasionally voicing their concerns in your other diplomatic situations. As to your messages, yes, that is defined as "poaching."

I'll comment the rest later.
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Last edited by Ejayrazz; 04-21-2010 at 06:27 PM.
  #10  
Old 04-21-2010, 06:25 PM
zyxth zyxth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ejayrazz View Post
You mention how we try making Legacy look bad, I explain we don't make any threads attacking them, therefore our motive to destroy their image is a delusion by yourself. We comment events like you comment others, it is the cycle of these forums.
Commenting on your posts specifically, as opposed to your guild as a whole, you appear to be trying to influence public opinion. You can qualify your actions by stating you do not start any threads - which is true - but you certainly come across as if you have an agenda. You miss no opportunity to share your opinion of Legacy on the forums.

I am really not sure why you feel compelled to preach your viewpoint. Or even why you feel so strongly about Legacy. Did a couple lines of text from Signal and a recruitment policy really evoke such a passionate response?

--Zy
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