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  #21  
Old 06-06-2010, 06:23 PM
BlueDude2 BlueDude2 is offline
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The problem with equalizing scouts and mages with warriors is that a different approach is the best strategy. If one is talking about offensive or defensive victory percentages, an uber high luck mage may be better than an INT mage against higher level opponents because a crit means game over. This means a generally good deterrent against attack, or if not deterring attack, at least a profit from being attacked (I lose 10% of someone else's 10%? cool)

This is because Mages have higher maxes.

Scouts, on the other hand, don't benefit as much per damage versus their target (warriors) because warriors get armor mitigation (up to 50%). Critting a warrior quickly and relying on a couple of lucky evades is also a better strategy both offensively and defensively.

Only warriors can reliably calculate damage and then it's only versus NON warriors who have 10 and 25% damage mitigation respectively. Flat crit calculations aren't really viable except in offense anyway since the odds are stacked against you when you are on defense (opponent can choose not to fight you if they don't have an advantage).

Min/Max is highly dependent on class-based advantages, and in a browser game you can't really call it an average since so much psychology and strategy is involved, unlike in a typical RPG where there are clear cut trade-offs.
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  #22  
Old 06-09-2010, 03:36 AM
Delvan Delvan is offline
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If a crit does double damage, then a 50% damage increase via a higher crit chance has the same effect as a 50% damage increase via the primary stat. Likewise, it doesn't matter if your opponent has 10% damage reduction or 25% damage reduction, unless crits ignore armor. These calculations also assume that the crit chance is not applied unless the attack hit (wasn't evaded or blocked). Lastly, I didn't put in a check to make sure you're not trying to get a crit chance greater than 50%, as I mainly intended it for myself and a couple friends who know better.

But regardless, I agree that a spread sheet cannot tell you how to play. It's solely for determining which method of increasing your raw damage output is more cost effective.
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  #23  
Old 06-09-2010, 12:43 PM
BlueDude2 BlueDude2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skulltaker View Post
Has any member of the US or German community modeled PvP combat in S&F and published guides showing the best point investments as they scale over time, by class?
Point investments scaled over time by class...

I don't think we have a comprehensive weapon compendium yet and every veteran player proves that base damage is a huge contributor to the calculation, and range just fouls up the min/max entirely. Also, there is a huge issue of style and strategy. More important than what stat to save for, is what stat to spend on so you don't lose 10-25% of your stack when you turn your back for a couple of hours.

Instead of trying to find the mathematical formula for decision making, I look at current success stories and model my behavior based on hypothesized game modeling with an estimation of competency relative to proximity competition. Basically, come up with a system that looks similar to the system used by leaderboard winners.

I won't give exact numbers, but I have a magic ratio for each of my stats relative to my level (and not one another) both geared and ungeared. I am still leveling at a satisfactory pace, increasing my ranking at a satisfactory pace, and I am on pace to have similar statistics to current game leaders (extrapolated based on sufficient time to get there). The system works for me.

I know it seems hokey to measure up according to other players, but if it worked for them it could work for you. In general, players that beef up can shoot up in spurts rather than a smooth continuum.

As for cost effectiveness: Cost is relative. Level Up, and gold will come.
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  #24  
Old 07-05-2010, 09:27 AM
Philippic Philippic is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2010
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The formula I like to go with is, Primary Stat & Constitution first. Luck, when it is 1/3 the price of those two, and Secondary Stats, when they are 1/6 of the value of Primary & Constitution.
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  #25  
Old 08-03-2010, 01:52 PM
stefaniG stefaniG is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2010
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i'm starting to think luck is a worse stat than non primary to raise, i've been out critted by people with less than 20% luck so many times when I have 40%+ it's not even funny anymore.

I'm about to trade in my +450 luck belt for a dex belt because it's worthless
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  #26  
Old 08-03-2010, 03:27 PM
BlueDude2 BlueDude2 is offline
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Luck is totally the least consistent stat of the 5. If you choose a DEX belt for your warrior/mage, go for it. As far as I concern myself, there is a floor for luck that you don't want to go below simply to keep the long-term victory ratios even.

For me, I have also lost to low-luck crits. They are inevitable and heart-breaking, but I simply keep bashing until I win 8 rounds out of 9. There is no such thing as a guaranteed victory, so I try not to put my character too far out there, but luck has saved my behind once or twice, and against dungeon grinding it's a boon.
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  #27  
Old 08-07-2010, 09:10 PM
stefaniG stefaniG is offline
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i jsut got a +900 luck bow, but it dropped my damage from 33k-67k with a dex bow to 36k-45k with the luck bow

i get 29% with the dex bow crit chance and 50% with the luck bow

i'm figuring this luck bow is a waste of time, since I lose about 50% damage and only crit 50% of the time for 100% damage. if I don't crit at all then I'm screwed

i might keep it for dungeons, since I could get a bunch of lucky crits in a row

Last edited by stefaniG; 08-07-2010 at 09:12 PM.
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  #28  
Old 08-11-2010, 12:50 PM
Meryyn Meryyn is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2010
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One of the errors missed in a lot of the posts above is that one point in str =/= one point in luck =/= one point in dex.

As the skills increase, the gold cost of increasing a skill point increases. So, if your main stat is around 600 and luck is around 200. You can buy a LOT more luck points for 200 gold than you can your main stat (maybe one point). Therefore, the relative benefit in deciding where to spend your gold to increase your average damage changes based on the relative levels of your skills. Increasing a low skill can be done much more effectively, than increasing a higher level skill.

Just thought I'd complicate things by pointing that out...
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  #29  
Old 08-12-2010, 02:44 AM
Darius Darius is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2010
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Mages ignores all armour.
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  #30  
Old 08-14-2010, 05:38 PM
wilan wilan is offline
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Here's my 2 cents regarding luck. Classes do not matter.

You can just take the expected increase in damage 1 luck will give you.

You do 5/(level*200) * primary attribute and that is the MAXIMUM how much your luck is worth compared to 1 primary attribute. Usually this number will be .3-.5 range depending on how high your primary attribute is. Usually you luck is worth less that this because:

1. Usually you kill dungeons higher than your level meaning your expected increase in damage is actually less.
2. Inconsistent damage leads to "overkill" a small (really small) fraction of the time thus "wasting" the crit. This means consistent damage (primary attribute) is slightly better
3. Primary attribute also gives reduction against the same class. Luck does not.

Also more luck does not means you will have a better chance of being "lucky". More primary attributes and the same "lucky" will produce the same results if not better.

My advice is keep the cost of luck around 30% the cost of your primary attribute.
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